Is Vampire Lord Overpowered?

[Heather]

I had a question. Among dicussion of the vampire lord, the people I've talked to have said that he is very weak, with his life drain hardly doing any damage, and that their regular weapons are stronger. While that might be the case given the right gear, perks, etc, I've always found the vampire lord to be easy mode. I was legitimately curious if anyone else thought the vampire lord was overpowered. Allow me to explain.

On legendary difficulty, the vampire lord's drain life slices through enemies, such as normal bandits that will go down in 4-5 drain life blasts. If you stood in the middle of a group of enemies and shoot directly at your feet, you will pretty much not die because of the amount of life drain, unless they were swinging 2-handed's at you or something.

But the vampire lord gains perks that just make him mind-boggling strong, such as force grip which lets you toss enemies (instakill them if throw off a cliff, minus Ebony Warrior.) which also stuns them momentarily. It's like a fus-ro-dah you can use whenever you please.

Summon garogyle will summon a super tanky monster that is not only tanky, but actually absorbs health for himself. He is the ultimate canon fodder. I never used raise undead much because gargoyle is usually always superior, and can't exist at the same time as a zombie.

Now, I've never really used claws much, but they're okay, I suppose, not quite as strong as life drain, but you can use it on a paralyzed enemy. Perhaps it'd make me raise an eyebrow if I was a khajiit (melee bonus carries over) with +20 poison melee damage perk with the Ring of the Beast which also gives you a monstrous +100 health and an additional 20 damage.

On the subject of rings (did they seriously feel the need to give the vampire lord even stronger gear?), the sister ring, the Ring of the Erudite, is godly. +100 magicka and unspecified (I think it's base magicka regen increase, not additional) for the vampire lord, but ALSO in human form, which is so powerful for mage characters (which if you are, you SHOULD be a vampire just simply because of all the benefits).

Corpus curse will let you paralyze an enemy, although I'm not sure if anyone resists it besides dragons, probably. Just another tool to stun your foes, although when you're being overwhelmed it's a bit hard to hit.

You've also got nifty gadgets like mist form to regenerate magicka along with your other attributes and to take some heat off of you, and supernatural reflexes (slow time) to give yourself more of an edge than you already have.

There are even amulets (holy...) that increase your power that can be worn alongside the rings, namely the Amulet of Bats (increases life drain from bat cloak by unspecified amount, but I imagine it's amazing with amulet in the middle of a horde ON TOP OF LIFE DRAIN, which will probably let you live even against two handers.), and the Amulet of the Gargoyle which summons an additional garogyle when the first is summoned, the second being summoned for 30 seconds, because why not be more sadistic?

Just the fact that drain life is a ranged spell with relatively low cost (you've got other methods to increase magicka/magicka regen anyway, or use your claws which vary in strength depending on how much you invested) is enough to make it outweigh werewolf claws, but it's almost as if it has the same strength.

Werewolves have a miniscule bonus (no well rested) for an incredible amount of power, but whilst in beast form, you are weak due to having limited life regeneration and being very weak to arrows. (legendary difficulty)

Vampire (lord)s, on the other hand, have tons of bonuses and nifty gadgets in human form, with relatively significant drawbacks, but if Auriel's Bow is obtained there is essentially no drawback, aside from some fire resistance which is only significant against dragons.

Did I mention vampire lords versus dragons? They can summon gargoyle for canon fodder and simply blast away. Even a legendary dragon on legendary isn't so... Legendary, against a fully-fledged vampire lord, although if they get a fire breath on you, that might cause some trouble.

I could go on... What do you guys think about the vampire lord? Any suggestions for balance changes (which would never happen, but what if?)? I would simply drastically decrease the power of life drain, which would emphasize the vampire lord more on support and spells and all these nifty things he's got.

[Heather]

Bump

[Endoskeleton]

I was a wood elf....used a bow, was so op....killed vampires. Told Serrana to make a Vampire lord, put on some nice clothes dont even need weapons anymore. Night is coming i go out in my nice clothes....weak humans look at me i turn into Vampire Lord kill them, eat them. Max Illusion. Simple wood elf with a bow is now a Vampire Lord in nice clothes and no weapons. Moving up in the world! 10/10

[Docsprock]

Such a long post with a short response.

I played the VL questline once. I was not impressed. All the perks are fun to use once or twice, but none were really useful.

The whole VL experience, for me, was grindy and lackluster. And no, I didnt see any particular aspect that was OP; more UP than anything.

[Heather]

Originally posted by Worst player on the team:

I was a wood elf....used a bow, was so op....killed vampires. Told Serrana to make a Vampire lord, put on some nice clothes dont even need weapons anymore. Night is coming i go out in my nice clothes....weak humans look at me i turn into Vampire Lord kill them, eat them. Max Illusion. Simple wood elf with a bow is now a Vampire Lord in nice clothes and no weapons. Moving up in the world! 10/10

???

English?

Illusion is an odd thing. The reason it's overlooked so much, is for it to be effective, you have to fully invest or not at all, since illusion spells are a level-check.

Master illusion spells are a ton of fun, though! If you fully invest as an illusion mage, using the three primary illusion spells will get you far, and if you're a vampire (why are you not?), you could use embrace of shadows to get past enemies too strong for your illusion.

[Heather]

Originally posted by Docsprock:

Such a long post with a short response.

I played the VL questline once. I was not impressed. All the perks are fun to use once or twice, but none were really useful.

The whole VL experience, for me, was grindy and lackluster. And no, I didnt see any particular aspect that was OP; more UP than anything.

Useful as in what? If you need to kill something, then vampire lord form has you covered. Hard to believe it's just me that thinks vampire lord is extremely powerful.

[Joe Coffee]

I don't think so. You can potentially be anything you want to be in Skyrim, within the construct of the game (w/o mods, w/o cheat), and with mods if you so desire. I'm a Vampire Lord, but from a RP perspective, Lord Harkon isn't a very great teacher nor is Serana, so I have no knowlege on how my powers works, or if I have them. Call me a poor man's "Louis" (from IwtV) or an "Aidan" (from Being Human US/CAN). Being a warrior who embraced being undead, I utilize melee weapons. My current choice is a Glass Sword of Immobilization so I pretty much rekt almost anything as a warrior. For those of you who know how to be a VL, sure, go with it. Me, I added a litle restrictive aspect via RP and storytelling-reason.

[Docsprock]

Originally posted by SamtheNurse:

Originally posted by Docsprock:

Such a long post with a short response.

I played the VL questline once. I was not impressed. All the perks are fun to use once or twice, but none were really useful.

The whole VL experience, for me, was grindy and lackluster. And no, I didnt see any particular aspect that was OP; more UP than anything.

Useful as in what? If you need to kill something, then vampire lord form has you covered. Hard to believe it's just me that thinks vampire lord is extremely powerful.

Ok, should have said, 'none were as useful as a bow and 2 handed'. Some perks are however, fun to use.:D

As for Serana, if she would turn into a VL during combat instead of teasing dragons with her pathetic life-drain, she would be more useful.

[Heather]

Originally posted by Docsprock:

Originally posted by SamtheNurse:

Useful as in what? If you need to kill something, then vampire lord form has you covered. Hard to believe it's just me that thinks vampire lord is extremely powerful.

Ok, should have said, 'none were as useful as a bow and 2 handed'. Some perks are however, fun to use.:D

As for Serana, if she would turn into a VL during combat instead of teasing dragons with her pathetic life-drain, she would be more useful.

Perhaps, with max archery, smithing, perks, a really good bow, all that jazz. And yes, two-handed is REALLY good, on Adept you can kill a dragon with a few swings midgame. (30's)

I never really use followers so I wouldn't know. Followers just get in the way, even though they're useful, I suppose. It seems like the gear you give them doesn't do jack...

Also, vampire lord, as I mentioned, does have the dps to take down any enemy or boss. While full investment in a weapon as a human may do more (namely dual-wield, holy-!), vampire lord requires x10 less effort and investment.

[crgzero]

I found it boring. Werewolf on the other hand!

Werewolf after an overhaul mod was even better.

Werewolf after my daughter and I wrote a mod to go e each individual race their own distinctive"feel" (khajiit wolf? BS!) was pure win!

[Heather]

Originally posted by crgzero:

I found it boring. Werewolf on the other hand!

Werewolf after an overhaul mod was even better.

Werewolf after my daughter and I wrote a mod to go e each individual race their own distinctive"feel" (khajiit wolf? BS!) was pure win!

What about both of them vanilla?

[crgzero]

Originally posted by SamtheNurse:

Originally posted by crgzero:

I found it boring. Werewolf on the other hand!

Werewolf after an overhaul mod was even better.

Werewolf after my daughter and I wrote a mod to go e each individual race their own distinctive"feel" (khajiit wolf? BS!) was pure win!

What about both of them vanilla?

I just told you. Very first sentence.

[Heather]

Originally posted by crgzero:

Originally posted by SamtheNurse:

What about both of them vanilla?

I just told you. Very first sentence.

How would you describe a werewolf experience on legendary difficulty?

[crgzero]

Originally posted by SamtheNurse:

Originally posted by crgzero:

I just told you. Very first sentence.

How would you describe a werewolf experience on legendary difficulty?

I don't play anything but the stereotypical sneaky backstabbing bow wielding bastage on legendary.

I always tell myself I'm going to try something new but inevitably I become a sneaky backstabbing bow wielding bastage.

Meh, whatever works.

[Heather]

Originally posted by crgzero:

Originally posted by SamtheNurse:

How would you describe a werewolf experience on legendary difficulty?

I don't play anything but the stereotypical sneaky backstabbing bow wielding bastage on legendary.

I always tell myself I'm going to try something new but inevitably I become a sneaky backstabbing bow wielding bastage.

Meh, whatever works.

I never use sneak, it always seems a bit too strong, especially with x15 dagger damage which can instakill most enemies on legendary

[Bomb Bloke]

I'd say asking whether something is "overpowered" is the wrong question; more importantly, is it fun?

Originally posted by SamtheNurse:

On the subject of rings (did they seriously feel the need to give the vampire lord even stronger gear?), the sister ring, the Ring of the Erudite, is godly. +100 magicka and unspecified (I think it's base magicka regen increase, not additional) for the vampire lord, but ALSO in human form, which is so powerful for mage characters (which if you are, you SHOULD be a vampire just simply because of all the benefits).

Base mana regen. This means that it multiplies with the sum of your regular mana regen enhancements.

Originally posted by SamtheNurse:

How would you describe a werewolf experience on legendary difficulty?

Haven't tried it, but I suspect you'll find it significantly more... difficult.

For one thing, the difficulty level only affects you. Your gargoyle summon, for example, is just as effective against your enemies regardless. Ditto for any regular followers you might have.

Werewolves can summon things, but the ability is hidden away - you don't even get the opportunity to unlock it until you've pretty much completed the Companion's questline. Without Dawnguard revealing the perk tree, I wouldn't expect many players to know it was there. Even with that knowledge, I wouldn't expect many to figure out how to get it without a guide.

Werewolves also have health regen and utility issues. Want to regain health? You need a corpse, and until you've gained a few perks, it has to be a humanoid one. Want to pick a lock? You simply have to sit on your thumb until the form wears off. Heck, you even need a special ring just to enter the form more than once per day. There's a ring that makes you regen health in werewolf form all the time, but you can't wear both...

On normal difficulty, the werewolf form can get a weak character through certain battles, but it becomes significantly less useful as you gain regular character perks and tempered weapons / armour. I'd expect it to lose that utility sooner on legendary.

However, there's not much that's more gratifying than basically being able to FUS RO DAH with your melee attacks.