Maven Black-Briar

[TheAwesomeOne]

So recently I've been trying to set maven to non-essential, but every time I try, it says "invalid character blah blah blah". I have the right id and everything, what's going on? Note, she is jarl right now, I've done the thieves guild, but I am not the guild master.

[gnewna]

Well, a/ what ID are you using and b/ I really wouldn't recommend killing her (tempting as it may be), it'll probably bugger things up.

[Ilja]

It has the power to break even the main quest. Removing her essential status is really not recommended.

[Arvyn]

Looking for a revenge? Be patient. Who knows, maybe she'll find a miserable end in the next game, be it written or in action.

[Bloodhawk]

Are you using her reference ID or her base ID? The "setessential" command requires a base ID which is not the one you see when selecting NPCs in the console.

Maven's base ID is 1336A. Try that if it's not the one you're using.

[TheAwesomeOne]

@gnewna, IIja, and squid; Everything I read said to use her refid, not the base. I thought I tried the baseid, but I'll try again. And I've already beaten the main quest.

[Bloodhawk]

Originally posted by TheAwesomeOne:

@gnewna, IIja, and squid; Everything I read said to use her refid, not the base. I thought I tried the baseid, but I'll try again. And I've already beaten the main quest.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Console

The "setessential" command specifically requires the base ID. This is because it's changing all NPCs of that type, rather than just a specific NPC. If you used the command on a Bandit Marauder, for instance, it would affect all Bandit Marauders in the entire game, not just a specific one.

To make Maven non-essential, use this command:

setessential 1336A 0

There's no need to target her when using the command as you're not altering just a single instance of Maven, you're altering all instances of Maven. If you were to spawn more Mavens after using this command, they would all be non-essential.

[TheAwesomeOne]

@Squid, not saying you're wrong, but everywhere I've read, said that when doing something to any npc, to use the refid. I've seen people suggest Maven's refid to others, and those people said that the refid works. In fact, everyother npc I've messed with I've had to use their refid. Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, in fact I think you're right, but not once have I seen anybody say to use Maven's baseid

[gnewna]

Originally posted by TheAwesomeOne:

@Squid, not saying you're wrong, but everywhere I've read, said that when doing something to any npc, to use the refid. I've seen people suggest Maven's refid to others, and those people said that the refid works. In fact, everyother npc I've messed with I've had to use their refid. Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, in fact I think you're right, but not once have I seen anybody say to use Maven's baseid

Well, no, there are things that you do using the refid (such as teleporting the main/existing 'version' of that NPC to you with the moveto player command) and things that you do with the baseid (such as changing the NPC's essential status or spawning a clone of the real one).

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:NPCs

Note especially the distinction between teleporting the existing version of, say, Maven to you (done with the refID) and spawning a clone (using the baseID) - the first one is generally safe (assuming the NPC is someone like, say, Lydia who can pretty much go anywhere without her AI being messed up by it, rather than someone like Malkoran who expects to be in his boss room - if you teleported him to you and then killed him it would almost certainly screw up the quest where he's the boss fight), the second one is only safe (ish) if you're just spawning generic enemies for a fight (and really, ideally, you'd make a hard (menu) save first, have the fight and then reload the save, although I've spawned wolves when I needed pelts for a quest and I was too high level so most of the wildlife spawns were throwing out bears and sabre cats...) or something like that, it should NOT be used with named NPCs.

[gnewna]

But again, don't kill Maven, unless you're planning to reload to a save before you did it, or you don't care if quests get bugged out. (Bugging out the main quest can also cause other things to go wrong, btw.)

[Bloodhawk]

Originally posted by TheAwesomeOne:

@Squid, not saying you're wrong, but everywhere I've read, said that when doing something to any npc, to use the refid. I've seen people suggest Maven's refid to others, and those people said that the refid works. In fact, everyother npc I've messed with I've had to use their refid. Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, in fact I think you're right, but not once have I seen anybody say to use Maven's baseid

Anyone saying the "setessential" command uses reference IDs is wrong. It uses base IDs as you aren't altering a specific instance of an actor, you are editing all instances of that actor.

Some commands use reference IDs. Some commands use base IDs. "setessential" uses the latter. It does not work with reference IDs. That is simply a fact.

[TheAwesomeOne]

@gnewna, the base id worked. Again, I've completed every quest that needs her, so I don't have to worry about bugs.