The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

View Stats:
Dadelus Oct 10, 2016 @ 5:57am
Did Kodlak Whitemane commit suicide or did he die honorably?
In a conversation with Kodlak, he says, "I grow old. My mind turns towards the horizon, to Sovngarde.". Then, in Bloods Honor, Kodlak sends you to obtain a head of a Glenmoril witch in order to lift the gift/curse of the werewolf, the Beast Blood.
On returning to Jorrvaskr, the Silver Hand have attacked and Kodlak is dead. Everyone in the Companions is OK and no one else was killed, except Kodlak. Athis is slightly wounded, but none of the other Companions is even scratched.

Did Kodlak believe the Beast Blood somehow kept him alive or healthy or perhaps extended his life and that if cured he would become sick and die, so he allowed himself to be killed?
Was Kodlak like the "old Orc" and desirable of a "good death" rather than die of old age?

Or, was he killed by a better warrior?

Curious minds want to know.
< >
Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
Shrapnel Oct 10, 2016 @ 6:00am 
He died/was killed so that you can assume leadership of the companions.
Whats all this suicide talk?
Stormsong Oct 10, 2016 @ 6:10am 
I always took it he died leading the defense of the hall. In tales you pick up around the hall, Skjor and Kodlak were a terrifying duo of sorts. I figure then that perhaps due to age and without his most familiar shield brother at his back the silver hand simply overtook him. They were probably all younger if not necessarily better warriors. Still as Aela tells you early on, numbers overwhelm. The other companions were there, sure, but Kodlak doesn't strike me as someone who would allow himself to be anywhere but the front.

Also, can't wolf out in the middle of the city. The fight didn't take place in the underforge after all.
Last edited by Stormsong; Oct 10, 2016 @ 6:12am
thedarthfader Oct 10, 2016 @ 6:53am 
I agree with stormsong, I think he died with honor by leading the defense like a true Nord would however without his shield brother and limited ability due to old age he was quickly overwhelmed and you know... DIED!!!
GrimCat Oct 10, 2016 @ 6:55am 
More likely that Kodlak took the brunt of the attack while defending the non-companions that reside in the hall. Like Stormsong said, they can't wolf-out. Takes away the biggest advantage the companions would have.
Whiterun's guards have been getting thinned out due to dragon and vampire attacks. Which is probably why the Silver Hand finally decided to attack. Not a lot of interference. Lure a few of the companions outside, keep them busy with a small force. Meanwhile the larger force sweeps inside overwhelms Kodlak and flee like the vermin they are.
I doubt Kodlak wanted the "honorable death" before he was cured. Remember that he doesn't know that he can be cured beyond death. So to him, if he dies, he becomes Hircine's puppy. Something he really didn't want.
Kodlak died for one simple reason: To move the story along.
Heather Oct 10, 2016 @ 8:26am 
Originally posted by Shrapnel:
He died/was killed so that you can assume leadership of the companions.
Whats all this suicide talk?

^
DrSuperEvil Oct 10, 2016 @ 11:17am 
He was old and it was a surprise attack. Not all made it out alive.
Dadelus Oct 10, 2016 @ 12:52pm 
I think I'll stick to my theory. Nothing posted convinces me otherwise.

Kodlak chose to die in battle rather than in bed of old age, so he didn't put up much of a fight when the Silver Hand attacked Jorrvaskr. He knew that the protagonist would be back with a witches head and knew he had to die before the Beast Blood was lifted from him so he could see who was trapped by Hirsine in Ysgramor's Tomb. He had to find out who and how many to free so once he got to Sovngarde he could recruit others to help him..

Kodlak took the only way out of life that offered him the information he needed to free those trapped by Hirscine.
GrimCat Oct 10, 2016 @ 1:44pm 
Originally posted by Dadelus:
I think I'll stick to my theory. Nothing posted convinces me otherwise.

Kodlak chose to die in battle rather than in bed of old age, so he didn't put up much of a fight when the Silver Hand attacked Jorrvaskr. He knew that the protagonist would be back with a witches head and knew he had to die before the Beast Blood was lifted from him so he could see who was trapped by Hirsine in Ysgramor's Tomb. He had to find out who and how many to free so once he got to Sovngarde he could recruit others to help him..

Kodlak took the only way out of life that offered him the information he needed to free those trapped by Hirscine.
Seeing as how they knew when the beastblood was introduced, and that since then all members of the inner circle have been werewolves, it's rather easy to figure out who hircine has.
Kodlak didn't know that he could be cured after death and so wouldn't think he was going to Sovengarde.
Last edited by GrimCat; Oct 10, 2016 @ 1:47pm
Solomon Hawk Oct 10, 2016 @ 2:15pm 
Silverhands look like any other citizen and could have easily walked right up to Jorvaskiir with the guards being completely unaware of their intentions.
But, it's odd that Kodlak was the only fatality.
Kodlak had hope that the Glenmoral Witch heads would be the key to removing the "curse". Otherwise he would not have sent the dragonborn on a quest to retrieve at least on of the heads to cure him.
(The dragonborn also pickes up enough heads to cure the twin brothers and himself). Oddly, I also pick up an extra head for anytime I wish to be turned into the beastblood again and later on cure myself again. The extra head is of no use to anyone else.
If Kodlak would have been killed so easily, it would be perhaps he chose not to fight which would be unusual. Would that be considered a suicidal decision? Perhaps and perhaps not.

I know from my own transformations that I am without armor after turning human again, that I have to re-equip my armor.
Originally posted by Tempest Stormcaller:
But, it's odd that Kodlak was the only fatality.
Not really, Kodlak was the only member of the Circle who was old.
Silverhands would have targeted the circle, remember it's fairly common knowledge who is in the group leading the companions. And if Kodlak had been younger, he would have survived.

But he did not commit suicide, or even a deliberate honourable death in combat. Until he was cured, he would have been afraid of ending up in Hircines Hunting Ground. (yes I know how it went, but viewing it from his perspective)
Last edited by alexander_dougherty; Oct 10, 2016 @ 2:23pm
Mr. Monday Oct 10, 2016 @ 8:54pm 
Originally posted by Tempest Stormcaller:
But, it's odd that Kodlak was the only fatality.

Not for lack of trying. If you ever looked around after finding out Kodlak was killed, you'll see the dark elf off to the left being attended to by one of the females.
MysticMalevolence Oct 10, 2016 @ 9:00pm 
Originally posted by Dadelus:
I think I'll stick to my theory. Nothing posted convinces me otherwise.
You do that. Nothing you've posted convinces me of your speculation's truth.
Originally posted by Dadelus:
I think I'll stick to my theory. Nothing posted convinces me otherwise.
Nothing will convince you, you made up your mind before you posted and hoped others would agree with you.
Raga Oct 11, 2016 @ 4:07am 
I still have Companion quest open, but I will give the answer based on other sources.
In the warband structures the "Chieftain" usually has to lead his troops/soldiers and noone is in front him - he/she has the biggest risk of being wounded.
In the aspect of realism the strong and tough warriors especially berserkers can fight with mortal wounds, with his/her insides out and kill the last opponent and then fall on the ground.
Sometimes the death occures within several hours - for example when the stomach is damaged.
So plotwise the leader receiving mortal wound (maybe focusing all enemies on himself) when the others came out unharmed could happen pretty likely.
Even if he knew he would die that way I would not call is suicide, but the sacrifice, honor and duty.
Last edited by Raga; Oct 11, 2016 @ 4:22am
velvetsanity Oct 11, 2016 @ 4:35am 
Here's another semi-related example: The 13th Warrior. Buliwyf (who, incidentally, was played by the actor who voiced Ulfric), weak, feverish, and dying from poison, steps out to join the others in the battle, driving the enemy off *and* killing their leader, before he sits down, watching the remnants ride back to their caves, and dies.
< >
Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
Per page: 1530 50

Date Posted: Oct 10, 2016 @ 5:57am
Posts: 15