If the stormcloaks won the civil war then the thalmor wouldn't be able to do anything.

[KingGorilla]

Ok lets say that the stormcloaks win hypothetically driving the imperial legions out, they establish their own independent kingdom, their own armed forces, their own economy, their own king aka ulfric stormcloak. The jarls that supported the empire are disposed the thalmor embassy is evacuated, the thalmor fort northwatch keep is evacuated with the prisoners left in their cells.

Now anyway, everything aside on my opinion of the matter of the civil war. Lets be honest here, skyrim would be better off without the empire. If you take a look at the map of tamriel then you would notice that the proximity of location between skyrim and the summerset isles couldn't be further apart, i mean you might as well put them a seperate continent. Disregarding the fact the nords of the province would not support them they wouldn't be able to govern it anyway because of how far apart it is. Lets say the thalmor want to subdue the nords by force, no easy task. The nords are a tough people, they would have the advantage because they are natural warriors and their borders are mountainous, so forget a land invasion, even if a land invasion was possible they would have to either have subdued cyrodill or hammerfell first to do it. So basically a land invasion is out of the question, a invasion by sea?. They would have to be very patient and spend a massive amount of resources to build an invasion fleet or convert one of their sea fleets into an invasion fleet, then train an invasion force with enough numbers to overrun the nords and their defenses on their own ground, and also specially trained to mount and amphibeus invasion. They would also have to allocate the proper supplies to prepare them for the climate and the distance of travel, things liked fur lined armor and coats to keep them warm when they are on campagin, plenty of preserved foods ,things that don't go bad, and ALOT of it. Not only enough for the travel to skyrim, but also enough to keep your troops fed after establishing a beach head, most likely i would anticipate northwatch keep . Even IF they win, which is a big if considering other factors that come into it, then the thalmor would need to occupy the territory, as we know nords are a stubborn people they wouldn't just bend to the thalmor, there would most likely be another rebbellion or some sort of underground resistance undermining their efforts to govern the province, even if they just tried to purge the populace then the rest of the country would turn on them. It simply wouldn't be in the thalmors best interest to invade, the land and terrain would prove difficult for their armies to navigate in an invasion. A hostile people who wont recognize anyone but their own governments running the show in the province, simply put if the stormcloaks won then the thalmor would be gone forever, the thalmor would cut their losses and skyrim would be able to keep to itself. The people would be safer, not having to worry about being dragged off in the middle of the night because of his opinions or religions, something the empire is failing to provide, JS.

[Raga]

"Could women be Vikings? Strictly speaking, they could not. The Old Norse word vikingar is exclusively applied to men, usually those who sailed from Scandinavia in groups to engage in the activities of raiding and trading in Britain, Europe and the East. But some Vikings stayed behind in these regions, and Scandinavian colonies were also established in the North Atlantic (Faroe, Iceland, Greenland)."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/vikings/women_01.shtml

"On one hand, a woman was, by law, under the authority of her husband or father. She had only limited freedom to dispose of property belonging to her. She was prohibited from participating in most political or governmental activities. She could not be a goði (chieftain). She could not be a judge. She could not be a witness. She could not speak at þing (assemblies).
On the other hand, women were respected in Norse society and had great freedom, especially when compared to other European societies of that era. They managed the finances of the family. They ran the farm in their husband's absence. In widowhood, they could be rich and important landowners. The law protected women from a wide range of unwanted attention. Grágás (K 155) lists penalties for offences ranging from kissing to intercourse."
http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/society/text/women.htm

[FON]

Raga původně napsal:

"Could women be Vikings? Strictly speaking, they could not. The Old Norse word vikingar is exclusively applied to men, usually those who sailed from Scandinavia in groups to engage in the activities of raiding and trading in Britain, Europe and the East. But some Vikings stayed behind in these regions, and Scandinavian colonies were also established in the North Atlantic (Faroe, Iceland, Greenland)."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/vikings/women_01.shtml

"On one hand, a woman was, by law, under the authority of her husband or father. She had only limited freedom to dispose of property belonging to her. She was prohibited from participating in most political or governmental activities. She could not be a goði (chieftain). She could not be a judge. She could not be a witness. She could not speak at þing (assemblies)."
http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/society/text/women.htm

[Falro the Great]

There are a few accounts of women fighting listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shieldmaiden#Historical_accounts

Though most sources seem to agree with the two above. I couldv'e sworn there was something to the effect of what Velvet said, but I cannot find anything ATM.

[AnAngryYeti]

What you've forgotten is that the Empire consists on more than just one legion. In fact, the "legion" that we see in skyrim is stated to be one of the Empires least experienced and has resorted to recruiting locals to fill its ranks. It's hinted at that the majority of the Empire's forces are in the South preparing for another conflict with the Thalmor (I believe that Tullius says this after you complete the civil war for the empire). These forces would be made up of professional trained soliders that could likley crush the stormcloaks if set against them. The Skyrim civil war is a mere distraction to the Empire in the grand scheme of things.

[Shedding my mortal skin]

And let's not forget how the Empire (or Stormcloaks) has the Last Dragonborn on their side. Capable of using the Thu'um, possibly leader of the Companions, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Dawnguard, etc. (Since some players may choose who to help differently.) The Thieves Guild wouldn't be too helpful, but the Dark Brotherhood are master assassins, which would allow for "guerilla warfare" on a higher scale. There's also the Companions, who are some of the best and most well-known fighters in Skyrim. Sure, they didn't help in the Civil War, but that's because they had no reason to. I'm pretty sure if it came to fighting the Aldmeri Dominion for your freedom, they'd do it.

In the Dragonborn DLC, you end up learning a Shout called Bend Will. By using all three Words, the Dragonborn is capable of bending the will of dragons. It'd be no problem to make the Thalmor turn on their allies.

There's also the Greybeards. The Greybeards are capable of using Thu'um (much like the Dragonborn) just after years of practice. They went as far as to anoint Tiber Septim as the Dragonborn, back before he became Talos. They would like to remain neutral probably, but the Thu'um may be seen as a threat to the Thalmor and attempts would then be made to take them out. Their leader Paarthurnax (who is a dragon, by the way) would definitely be seen as a threat, and since the Greybeards would refuse to help the Dragonborn if he/she slew Paarthurnax, the Thalmor killing him would be no different. Assuming they could kill him anyways, since only a Dragonborn can slay a dragon permenantly by devouring its soul.

With pretty much all of Skyrim, and the geography of Skyrim, Tamriel, and Nirn against the Aldmeri Dominion, they wouldn't stand a chance.

[sim 35th]

Giant Enemy Crab původně napsal:

They would like to remain neutral probably

With this btw agreed. Even Delphine isn't liking their neutral position

[GrimCat]

jimanity původně napsal:

The Thalmor could use weather magic to starve the Stormcloaks out. Skyrim does not have enough farm land to feed it's people and support a large standing army. Wiping out one season worth of crops would essentially shut the Stormcloaks down. Using weather magic you could make rivers flood and keep roads all but impassable where and when you want.

True. But we can't really quantify weather magic, can we? We don't know how powerful it can really get, nor how draining it can be.

"And Skyrim has Winterhold. And, given you're assuming the invasion will be before Skyrim has had time to heal, we can assume that the Dragonborn is still archmage."

The book Disaster at Ioneth gives us a good indication of the power of weather magics. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Report:_Disaster_at_Ionith

You can't make the assumption that the dragonborn is arch-mage because it all depends on the individuals game. I have many more characters that didn't become arch-mage than did.

Not to mention that the general populace of Skyrim distrusts the mages of Winterhold, even their own jarl wants them gone since they blame them for the Great Collapse. And there's what, eight mages at Winterhold? Good luck.

jimanity původně napsal:

Meanwhile, dragons are still ravaging the countryside, vampires are openly attacking in every Skyrim city and village. Kind of hard to wage a war when your country is falling apart from the inside.

And if the Thalmor conquer Skyrim, all of those problems tearing the country apart will become their problems.[/quote]

And? That really doesn't have anything to do with the subject at hand.

*Edited to be less of a wall.

[FON]

Giant Enemy Crab původně napsal:

And let's not forget how the Empire (or Stormcloaks) has the Last Dragonborn on their side. Capable of using the Thu'um, possibly leader of the Companions, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Dawnguard, etc. (Since some players may choose who to help differently.) The Thieves Guild wouldn't be too helpful, but the Dark Brotherhood are master assassins, which would allow for "guerilla warfare" on a higher scale. There's also the Companions, who are some of the best and most well-known fighters in Skyrim. Sure, they didn't help in the Civil War, but that's because they had no reason to. I'm pretty sure if it came to fighting the Aldmeri Dominion for your freedom, they'd do it.

In the Dragonborn DLC, you end up learning a Shout called Bend Will. By using all three Words, the Dragonborn is capable of bending the will of dragons. It'd be no problem to make the Thalmor turn on their allies.

There's also the Greybeards. The Greybeards are capable of using Thu'um (much like the Dragonborn) just after years of practice. They went as far as to anoint Tiber Septim as the Dragonborn, back before he became Talos. They would like to remain neutral probably, but the Thu'um may be seen as a threat to the Thalmor and attempts would then be made to take them out. Their leader Paarthurnax (who is a dragon, by the way) would definitely be seen as a threat, and since the Greybeards would refuse to help the Dragonborn if he/she slew Paarthurnax, the Thalmor killing him would be no different. Assuming they could kill him anyways, since only a Dragonborn can slay a dragon permenantly by devouring its soul.

With pretty much all of Skyrim, and the geography of Skyrim, Tamriel, and Nirn against the Aldmeri Dominion, they wouldn't stand a chance.

are you high? THe brotherhood killed the emperor

[sim 35th]

This thread slighty is turning into, not that big though but, spoiler. My apologies but my words were addressed to Draugr Overlord, von Pig. Though I quess it doesn't matter ... already.

[Metadragon]

The Thalmor would NOT leave Skyrim, or anyone, alone. The master plan is to ban worship of Talos.

There is a theory that Talos worship is actually keeping Mundus from disintegrating. Into the void but to go into detail about that would require a long ass post and a really strong knowledge of Elder Scrolls lore.

Anyway, it should be noted that both Ulfric (Stormcloaks) and Elisif (Empire) BOTH are opposed to the Thalmor banning Talos worship. So if Stormcloaks or Empire wins then though it would be two seperate nations or one reunified they would have stopped bleeding each other dry and can divert forces elsewhere.

It should be noted that the world is quite topsy turvy atm. Without Skyrim, the Titus Mede's "Empire" would consist of only Cyrodil, which is bled dry, and High Rock which may well be folowing Skyrim's example. The Aldmeri Dominion controlls Summerset Isle, Elseweyr ( who they have firmly underfoot because in the lore they apparently "saved" the moon which the Khajiit worship) and Valenwood (its implied there is quite a guerilla force fighting the Thalmor there though). Skyrim would be independent but its also taxed from the Civil War and from hosting a refugees from Orsinium and Morrowind (which was wracked by disaster and partially conquered by the Argonians). Hammerfell is independent and apparently strong enough to actively withstand the Aldmeri's independently.

So yeah the world is quite divided atm and Skyrim winning or losing independence would actually help stabilize the area one way or the other. Being Dovahkiin and having exploted Skyrim during this time I tend to side with the Sotrmcloaks. At the same time Elisif os also a strong leader and her husband was legally in the right. So either way.

Sorry for the long post.

[velvetsanity]

Falro the Bloody původně napsal:

There are a few accounts of women fighting listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shieldmaiden#Historical_accounts

Though most sources seem to agree with the two above. I couldv'e sworn there was something to the effect of what Velvet said, but I cannot find anything ATM.

One thing to keep in mind is that most 'sources' historically have been men in patriarchal societies that at times actively worked to remove any and all references to women in any role other than barefoot and pregnant slaving over a hot stove.

Regarding the Viking settlements that were mentioned in Raga's quote, that's not particularly relevant, as the remains I referred to came from battlefields that have been uncovered.

Prior to the reexamination of the remains that showed them to be female (determined by close examination of skeletal structure and proportions) it had previously been *assumed* they were male because of the same 'most sources' you mentioned.

[Metadragon]

velvetsanity původně napsal:

Falro the Bloody původně napsal:

There are a few accounts of women fighting listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shieldmaiden#Historical_accounts

Though most sources seem to agree with the two above. I couldv'e sworn there was something to the effect of what Velvet said, but I cannot find anything ATM.

One thing to keep in mind is that most 'sources' historically have been men in patriarchal societies that at times actively worked to remove any and all references to women in any role other than barefoot and pregnant slaving over a hot stove.

Regarding the Viking settlements that were mentioned in Raga's quote, that's not particularly relevant, as the remains I referred to came from battlefields that have been uncovered.

Prior to the reexamination of the remains that showed them to be female (determined by close examination of skeletal structure and proportions) it had previously been *assumed* they were male because of the same 'most sources' you mentioned.

Not to butt in on your sub-conversation but I feel the need to say that except for large military movements and most raiding women very much fought muvh of Scandinavian culture. The Langobards (or Lombards) in particular fought some brutal wars against the Gepids and fielded a lot of women (anectdotally anyway) this was before they conquered Italy of course.

And they were rank and file soldiers too

[Mr. Monday]

Giant Enemy Crab původně napsal:

...The Thieves Guild wouldn't be too helpful, but the Dark Brotherhood are master assassins, which would allow for "guerilla warfare" on a higher scale...

Actually the Guild would be useful as spies, saboteurs, and similar missions/roles that don't necessarily involve killing anyone.

[FON]

Mr. Monday původně napsal:

Giant Enemy Crab původně napsal:

...The Thieves Guild wouldn't be too helpful, but the Dark Brotherhood are master assassins, which would allow for "guerilla warfare" on a higher scale...

Actually the Guild would be useful as spies, saboteurs, and similar missions/roles that don't necessarily involve killing anyone.

The guild wouldn't fight a national war. Period

[GrimCat]

Mr. Monday původně napsal:

Giant Enemy Crab původně napsal:

...The Thieves Guild wouldn't be too helpful, but the Dark Brotherhood are master assassins, which would allow for "guerilla warfare" on a higher scale...

Actually the Guild would be useful as spies, saboteurs, and similar missions/roles that don't necessarily involve killing anyone.

Not to mention that the Dark Brotherhood may not be so helpful. They are, at their heart a religious order. If they follow the Tenets they will only kill who the Night Mother tells them to. The Listener could feed them false info, but that would be in violation of the rules. And when you violate Sithis's rules...things happen. Bad Things.