The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

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Largest plothole in Dawnguard
If Harkon needs Serana's blood for the ritual, why can't we just kill Serana? Even from a roleplay perspective, as soon as the PC learns she's a load-bearing element of this vampire prophecy, she not only becomes disposable, she's better to the Dawnguard-siding player dead! That, and she's annoying and clingy.
投稿主: 258789553873:
Serana isn't the only 'daughter of colharbour'. Her mother is too. Also, there's no mention that there's any limitations to becoming one (beyond being a follower of Molag Bal), so in theory Serana is just one of many 'daughters of coldharbour' that could be used, so killing her wouldn't really accomplish much. Then again, it makes no sense that Harkon didn't just find another after his wife and daughter vanished. Seriously, what was he doing during the literal thousands of years that they were hiding? Was he just moping around in his castle waiting for them to show up again? Why not just find another? Or perhaps, just make another just so he could use them to bring the prophecy to fruitiion?

Of course, let's be honest, the writing in this game is garbage. Besides being largely uninteresting, many of the questlines have obvious plot holes in them. How could Astrid have ever thought that giving away the location of their hideout, and then killing the son of the very man she revealed it to, was a good idea? Who could seriously be THAT incompetent? Why does the TG just blindly accept this 'translated' document that they couldn't read before, written in a handwriting they had probably never seen before? Why do the blades boss you around and threaten to kick you out when Delphine says they're supposed to be serving YOU? You didn't even do anything to piss them off. Or why does no one realize there's something fishy about Ulfric's motives? He claims to be fighting to allow Talos worship, when Skyrim had been getting away with it for 20 years, and he happened to start his war after he killed the guy who had recently won the moot even though by all accounts he was a supporter of his and in fact was expecting to be invited to join. I mean, Whiterun has a freaking Talos shrine complete with a giant statue in their town square, and the Solitude temple only recently removed their Shrine. There's also Talos Shrines active in both Windhelm and Markarth. The dominion clearly wasn't doing that great of a job of suppressing Talos worship before. Why would Ulfric start a rebellion so that nords could get away with what they had already been getting away with without issue for two decades? Why does no one in-game point this out? I mean, nobody makes it apparent that the Great War had actually happened 20 years prior, or make it that apparent that Torygg had only recently been elected High King. Its so freaking obvious what his motives really are, but even his sworn enemies never point this out. Even Rikke is convinced he's fighting for what he says he is, and she's seriously in a position where she can get into arguments with Tullius himself! At least the Jarls that side with Ulfric acknowledge that he can't fully be trusted, though they never outright point out that he's obviously doing this just so he can be High King. I mean, the guy killed the High King out of nowhere, and then tries to replace all the Jarls that don't like him. How could it be any more blunt?
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"You know?, our world is technically better off without humans, let's blow ourselves up right this instant." This has the same vibe.
LoL, I first read the heading as: largest Pothole... I was like: really, what in a road somewhere??
John の投稿を引用:
"You know?, our world is technically better off without humans, let's blow ourselves up right this instant." This has the same vibe.
Agreed, somewhat, but unrelated. No one human is crucial to the future of humanity. This one vampire could be put down to stop a plot millennia in the making. A massive oversight on Harkon's part, a forced oversight on the PC's part, and a darn headscratcher of an oversight on the writer's part.
There is one thing that Harkon didn't realize is that Vampires can survive in the day time I mean look you can have Serana as a Follower and is with you weather if it's night or day
John の投稿を引用:
"You know?, our world is technically better off without humans, let's blow ourselves up right this instant." This has the same vibe.
I'm actually ok with this, however, it is taking it to the extreme. The OP's argument is that ONE vampire is the lynchpin, not the entirety of life.

Hystorm の投稿を引用:
LoL, I first read the heading as: largest Pothole... I was like: really, what in a road somewhere??
Same LOL

Naii Elyuex の投稿を引用:
No one human is crucial to the future of humanity. This one vampire could be put down to stop a plot millennia in the making.
This.

Master Talon の投稿を引用:
There is one thing that Harkon didn't realize is that Vampires can survive in the day time I mean look you can have Serana as a Follower and is with you weather if it's night or day
Technically it's only the Master/Vampire Lords like Harkon and Serana and Valerica - those made directly by Molag Bal - who can survive in daylight. There are other vampire types, including most of Harkon's court, who are "diseased" or otherwise turned by Vampire Lords, which cannot. Harkon's (Vyrthur's) plan would benefit all vampires, and they would fall under Harkon's rule (including Vyrthur, since he was turned by another, and not made by Molag Bal. That in itself is a technicality he overlooked, and another plot hole.)
このスレッドの作成者がこの投稿を元のトピックへの回答と指定しました。
Serana isn't the only 'daughter of colharbour'. Her mother is too. Also, there's no mention that there's any limitations to becoming one (beyond being a follower of Molag Bal), so in theory Serana is just one of many 'daughters of coldharbour' that could be used, so killing her wouldn't really accomplish much. Then again, it makes no sense that Harkon didn't just find another after his wife and daughter vanished. Seriously, what was he doing during the literal thousands of years that they were hiding? Was he just moping around in his castle waiting for them to show up again? Why not just find another? Or perhaps, just make another just so he could use them to bring the prophecy to fruitiion?

Of course, let's be honest, the writing in this game is garbage. Besides being largely uninteresting, many of the questlines have obvious plot holes in them. How could Astrid have ever thought that giving away the location of their hideout, and then killing the son of the very man she revealed it to, was a good idea? Who could seriously be THAT incompetent? Why does the TG just blindly accept this 'translated' document that they couldn't read before, written in a handwriting they had probably never seen before? Why do the blades boss you around and threaten to kick you out when Delphine says they're supposed to be serving YOU? You didn't even do anything to piss them off. Or why does no one realize there's something fishy about Ulfric's motives? He claims to be fighting to allow Talos worship, when Skyrim had been getting away with it for 20 years, and he happened to start his war after he killed the guy who had recently won the moot even though by all accounts he was a supporter of his and in fact was expecting to be invited to join. I mean, Whiterun has a freaking Talos shrine complete with a giant statue in their town square, and the Solitude temple only recently removed their Shrine. There's also Talos Shrines active in both Windhelm and Markarth. The dominion clearly wasn't doing that great of a job of suppressing Talos worship before. Why would Ulfric start a rebellion so that nords could get away with what they had already been getting away with without issue for two decades? Why does no one in-game point this out? I mean, nobody makes it apparent that the Great War had actually happened 20 years prior, or make it that apparent that Torygg had only recently been elected High King. Its so freaking obvious what his motives really are, but even his sworn enemies never point this out. Even Rikke is convinced he's fighting for what he says he is, and she's seriously in a position where she can get into arguments with Tullius himself! At least the Jarls that side with Ulfric acknowledge that he can't fully be trusted, though they never outright point out that he's obviously doing this just so he can be High King. I mean, the guy killed the High King out of nowhere, and then tries to replace all the Jarls that don't like him. How could it be any more blunt?
IXBlackWolfXI の投稿を引用:
Serana isn't the only 'daughter of colharbour'. Her mother is too. Also, there's no mention that there's any limitations to becoming one (beyond being a follower of Molag Bal), so in theory Serana is just one of many 'daughters of coldharbour' that could be used, so killing her wouldn't really accomplish much. Then again, it makes no sense that Harkon didn't just find another after his wife and daughter vanished. Seriously, what was he doing during the literal thousands of years that they were hiding? Was he just moping around in his castle waiting for them to show up again? Why not just find another? Or perhaps, just make another just so he could use them to bring the prophecy to fruitiion?

Of course, let's be honest, the writing in this game is garbage. Besides being largely uninteresting, many of the questlines have obvious plot holes in them. How could Astrid have ever thought that giving away the location of their hideout, and then killing the son of the very man she revealed it to, was a good idea? Who could seriously be THAT incompetent? Why does the TG just blindly accept this 'translated' document that they couldn't read before, written in a handwriting they had probably never seen before? Why do the blades boss you around and threaten to kick you out when Delphine says they're supposed to be serving YOU? You didn't even do anything to piss them off. Or why does no one realize there's something fishy about Ulfric's motives? He claims to be fighting to allow Talos worship, when Skyrim had been getting away with it for 20 years, and he happened to start his war after he killed the guy who had recently won the moot even though by all accounts he was a supporter of his and in fact was expecting to be invited to join. I mean, Whiterun has a freaking Talos shrine complete with a giant statue in their town square, and the Solitude temple only recently removed their Shrine. There's also Talos Shrines active in both Windhelm and Markarth. The dominion clearly wasn't doing that great of a job of suppressing Talos worship before. Why would Ulfric start a rebellion so that nords could get away with what they had already been getting away with without issue for two decades? Why does no one in-game point this out? I mean, nobody makes it apparent that the Great War had actually happened 20 years prior, or make it that apparent that Torygg had only recently been elected High King. Its so freaking obvious what his motives really are, but even his sworn enemies never point this out. Even Rikke is convinced he's fighting for what he says he is, and she's seriously in a position where she can get into arguments with Tullius himself! At least the Jarls that side with Ulfric acknowledge that he can't fully be trusted, though they never outright point out that he's obviously doing this just so he can be High King. I mean, the guy killed the High King out of nowhere, and then tries to replace all the Jarls that don't like him. How could it be any more blunt?
Very Long, Read Anyway, you have more points than a Frost Wall streak.
DrNewcenstein の投稿を引用:
John の投稿を引用:
"You know?, our world is technically better off without humans, let's blow ourselves up right this instant." This has the same vibe.
I'm actually ok with this, however, it is taking it to the extreme. The OP's argument is that ONE vampire is the lynchpin, not the entirety of life.

Hystorm の投稿を引用:
LoL, I first read the heading as: largest Pothole... I was like: really, what in a road somewhere??
Same LOL

Naii Elyuex の投稿を引用:
No one human is crucial to the future of humanity. This one vampire could be put down to stop a plot millennia in the making.
This.

Master Talon の投稿を引用:
There is one thing that Harkon didn't realize is that Vampires can survive in the day time I mean look you can have Serana as a Follower and is with you weather if it's night or day
Technically it's only the Master/Vampire Lords like Harkon and Serana and Valerica - those made directly by Molag Bal - who can survive in daylight. There are other vampire types, including most of Harkon's court, who are "diseased" or otherwise turned by Vampire Lords, which cannot. Harkon's (Vyrthur's) plan would benefit all vampires, and they would fall under Harkon's rule (including Vyrthur, since he was turned by another, and not made by Molag Bal. That in itself is a technicality he overlooked, and another plot hole.)
actually no you do see random Vampires out and about night or day
I agree the writing leaves far more questions. It's really sad when you know they haven't gotten any better since Oblivion; Guide to Kvatch, anyone?

The whole thing with Ulfric is that he's a Thalmor asset; he was ordered to kill Toryyg to start a civil war, which would splinter the legion. However, even if there was a legit concern about religious freedom, the Empire allowed Hammerfell to secede over less of a reason, but not Skyrim, and it's never explained why.
I get that you have to have a story, but the story has to make sense, and open issues have to be resolved. It's not like they're making Skyrim 2, where everything is resolved.
Master Talon の投稿を引用:
actually no you do see random Vampires out and about night or day

I think many of those (vampire being chased by vigilants, vampire chasing the Dawnguard guy who quits the band, lone vampire running end to end, "you there, traveler, over here" ambush, vampire attack after fast travel) are issues with the spawn script.

Before they patched it, vampires would spawn in cities after 7pm, which is still only dusk.
DrNewcenstein の投稿を引用:
Master Talon の投稿を引用:
actually no you do see random Vampires out and about night or day

I think many of those (vampire being chased by vigilants, vampire chasing the Dawnguard guy who quits the band, lone vampire running end to end, "you there, traveler, over here" ambush, vampire attack after fast travel) are issues with the spawn script.

Before they patched it, vampires would spawn in cities after 7pm, which is still only dusk.
what about Hern and Hert? They are vampires and they are out during the day and not vampire lords. So like I said any vampire can survive outside during the day time even with no clouds in the sky. Though Alva you only see out at night and she is a vampire lord however.
最近の変更はMaster Talonが行いました; 2021年8月2日 10時48分
IXBlackWolfXI の投稿を引用:
Serana isn't the only 'daughter of colharbour'. Her mother is too. Also, there's no mention that there's any limitations to becoming one (beyond being a follower of Molag Bal), so in theory Serana is just one of many 'daughters of coldharbour' that could be used, so killing her wouldn't really accomplish much. Then again, it makes no sense that Harkon didn't just find another after his wife and daughter vanished. Seriously, what was he doing during the literal thousands of years that they were hiding? Was he just moping around in his castle waiting for them to show up again? Why not just find another? Or perhaps, just make another just so he could use them to bring the prophecy to fruitiion?

Of course, let's be honest, the writing in this game is garbage. Besides being largely uninteresting, many of the questlines have obvious plot holes in them. How could Astrid have ever thought that giving away the location of their hideout, and then killing the son of the very man she revealed it to, was a good idea? Who could seriously be THAT incompetent? Why does the TG just blindly accept this 'translated' document that they couldn't read before, written in a handwriting they had probably never seen before? Why do the blades boss you around and threaten to kick you out when Delphine says they're supposed to be serving YOU? You didn't even do anything to piss them off. Or why does no one realize there's something fishy about Ulfric's motives? He claims to be fighting to allow Talos worship, when Skyrim had been getting away with it for 20 years, and he happened to start his war after he killed the guy who had recently won the moot even though by all accounts he was a supporter of his and in fact was expecting to be invited to join. I mean, Whiterun has a freaking Talos shrine complete with a giant statue in their town square, and the Solitude temple only recently removed their Shrine. There's also Talos Shrines active in both Windhelm and Markarth. The dominion clearly wasn't doing that great of a job of suppressing Talos worship before. Why would Ulfric start a rebellion so that nords could get away with what they had already been getting away with without issue for two decades? Why does no one in-game point this out? I mean, nobody makes it apparent that the Great War had actually happened 20 years prior, or make it that apparent that Torygg had only recently been elected High King. Its so freaking obvious what his motives really are, but even his sworn enemies never point this out. Even Rikke is convinced he's fighting for what he says he is, and she's seriously in a position where she can get into arguments with Tullius himself! At least the Jarls that side with Ulfric acknowledge that he can't fully be trusted, though they never outright point out that he's obviously doing this just so he can be High King. I mean, the guy killed the High King out of nowhere, and then tries to replace all the Jarls that don't like him. How could it be any more blunt?
since you mentioned the TG Gallus did know The Falmer Language hints him writting it and it wasn't a document it was his journal and he was the Guild Master before Mercer was. So no plot hole in the questline. And with the Dark Brotherhood Astrid tried to plot against you, The Dragonborn/Listener, and failed and was betrayed by Maro. No plot hole there either.
最近の変更はMaster Talonが行いました; 2021年8月2日 11時04分
The plot hole in the DG is that Astrid had already killed Maro's son, and yet turned to him for help against you. Maro would have gutted her on the spot.

As for Hert and Hern, she is the only one I ever see outside. And, as the lore states, there are some vampires who can function perfectly well in daylight, so no mystery there. However, Hern is a master vampire, according to Three Dog, anyway.

As a vampire, you do have to feed to reduce the sun's effects.

Vyrthur's plan (the basis of Harkon's all-consuming prophecy) was not so much to create eternal night for the sake of vampires, anyway, it was to deny Auriel (the living Sun) that connection to Nirn because he was butt-hurt about his own acolyte becoming a vampire, and turning him. It's a crisis of faith in the realization that the Aedra do not show any direct influence (i.e. protection from misfortune) in the lives of their most devout followers. It's an admittedly tired cliche` of "*insert celestial being here* didn't prevent *insert tragedy here*, therefore said celestial being is a pud nibbler".

As for Serana, technically she could have been killed as soon as you found her and nothing would come of it. Valerica would live in the Soul Cairn for another few millennia (remember, she put Serana in the crypt, and entered the Soul Cairn, long before the first Empire), and Harkon's quest would eventually become a meme.

Yes, as worshippers of Molag Bal, he could've just found another freaky chick that wanted some Daedra dong, then bled her dry, but he still needed Auriel's bow. None of his crew were anywhere close to finding it, mostly because Harkon had them focused on finding Serana, and they were all dealing with their own court intrigue to take it seriously.

Besides, they would need Valerica's Elder Scroll to find the bow, and they didn't know where she was. Hence, killing Serana and dumping her body in the surrounding lake would have pretty much ended the main threat. However, the vampire attacks, which is what started the whole Dawnguard thing to begin with, would never end.
IXBlackWolfXI の投稿を引用:
Serana isn't the only 'daughter of colharbour'. Her mother is too. Also, there's no mention that there's any limitations to becoming one (beyond being a follower of Molag Bal), so in theory Serana is just one of many 'daughters of coldharbour' that could be used, so killing her wouldn't really accomplish much. Then again, it makes no sense that Harkon didn't just find another after his wife and daughter vanished.
Because they took the two Elder Scrolls that would have told him he needed the Blood of a Daughter of Coldharbour..... until he got them back he had no way of getting that piece of knowledge, because his wife found out first, and prevented him from finding it out himself. Of course it makes no sense that he would kill his daughter when he could create another Daughter of Coldharbour from any Molag Bal worshipping female...
In Harkon's eyes, Serana would have been dying for a good cause. I can't imagine he had much paternal love for her. Molag Bal isn't one for sentiment, and I'd imagine his followers aren't either.

Harkon knew there was at least one scroll to decode the prophecy, which is why he asks about it upon her return. That scroll speaks of the prophecy, and Auriel's bow, but doesn't show the location. However, it does mention the 2nd scroll.
Harkon could have gotten at least that far without Serana, had the scroll been retrieved from her crypt (and her dead). The moth priest was in Skyrim already, regardless, and Harkon would have followed the logical path after retrieving the scroll; ask at the College, then get pointed to the moth priest. When you rescue him, they've almost got him fully enthralled. Since you have to fight him once the barrier is down, you could say they succeeded at the literal last second.
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投稿日: 2021年8月1日 9時13分
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