Why do people hate the idea of mod packs so much?

[258789553873]

Yes, I'm aware this is probably going to get ugly, but I just don't understand why mod authors are removing their mods just because they don't want people to be able to follow any mod guides they find.

I've long been annoyed with mod authors removing their mods. You look at any modding guide on youtube, you'll find you can't replicate most of them because the mods just aren't available anymore. I've long been annoyed with the fact that there's so many mods I'll never be able to experience, unless the mod author decides to re-upload it, which is VERY rare. Now, mod authors are just worsening the problem by removing mods willy-nilly. I mean, Maelstrom was recently removed, which is a mod that Heavy Burns just featured in a guide on his channel.

I don't get what they're even protesting about. I know how the system works, but what's wrong with nexus trying to curb the problem with mod authors removing their mods? Just because you aren't happy with something anymore doesn't mean someone else isn't. I mean, what happens if you update a mod that someone else made a compatbility patch for? That patch is useless unless they can find a copy of the version it was made for. I mean, if you want to use Real Shelter with Frostfall, for instance, you have to run version 2.6. Luckily, that's still available, but cases like that are rare. I don't see how this is taking control away from mod authors. I mean, what if they published a book they later became unhappy with, would they do everything in their power to have every copy of that book burned? If they sold a painting to a museum, would they want to burn it if they decided they didn't like it themselves anymore, to hell with what anyone else thought? I can understand wanting control over your work, but this isn't about control, this is about making life easier for those who want to enjoy these mods.

I'm getting tired of seeing several great mods I've downloaded in the past suddenly disappear just because of this mod pack thing. I don't even get why anyone takes issue with it. Just now, it would seem Ace3 has hidden his Tel Nalta mod. If you go to it, you'll get a long-winded ramble on why he hates the mod pack idea. After reading it, I still don't understand, no offense, but he just looks like he's gone psychotic to me (seriously).

Let history be saved, let things remain for those who want it. I fully understand that most mod users are inconsiderate to modders, but still if you're putting your mods online, you're essentially working in entertainment. If someone else enjoys something but you don't, does that give you the right to take it away from them? If someone owned a book of yours, do you think you have the right to take that book back and burn it if you don't like it anymore regardless of what the owner thought? This is madness, and is only making the problem worse.

Let people enjoy things, what cost is it to you? What do you lose by having someone enjoy something you don't anymore? How does that harm you in anyway? Why go out of your way to stop people from enjoying your hard work? Where does that hard work go if you remove everything? What, is everyone just going to remove all their mods from the nexus and kill skyrim modding over this? This is stupid and immature. If someone felt inclined to include a mod of mine in a modlist, I'd be flattered, I wouldn't be pissed about it. This makes no sense, and is harming the amazing mod scene for this game. How is what the nexus is doing going to harm modding in anyway? Why does it matter if you have outdated versions of your mod in the 'old files' section? Many mod authors take no issue with doing that at all, and I wish more did. I mean, there's a reason there's non-stop complaints about how Arthmoor refuses to upload outdated versions of USLEEP, even though he surely must know the community is divided between innumerable different versions of the game. He's preventing 90% (at least) of SE players from using his mod. In fact, fewer and fewer people ARE, just because they can't find the version for their version of the game. I mean, its rare for mods to not conflict with it now because so many mod authors are having to play without it.

The only part of this I can understand is nexus forcing people do something that obviously some don't want to do. Still, why take it out on the mod users? Why take it out on your fans? Why attack the people that bought your book? Why sue the museum that bought your painting? This is stark raving madness. How long are they going to keep doing this? Until they've killed Skyrim modding, leaving it as nothing but a memory? Are the mod authors themselves going to kill this game just because they don't like people who for whatever reason are using outdated versions of their mods? There's many good reasons to do so, from newer versions not being compatible with your version of the game, to patches you need, to simply prefer the mod at an earlier stage of its development. What's wrong with wanting to use the great mods of the past? Why attack the mod users themselves for wanting to enjoy your work? It makes NO sense!

[Ilja]

Will you stop to each mod author page and consider reading proper instructions, give endorsements to them and feedback of their work?

Or, will you linger in the mod pack page, babble there, avoid reading instructions from mod pages, throw some mods in and then complain about incompatibilities?

90% players will to latter. That deprives mod authors from feedback, support and forces them to work with patches to content they never created. It is very unlikely that mod pack authors will start to work with patches for most combinations, in which case we get 1000 new soon to be outdated patches for specific mod packs on nexus - plaguing it like big breasted character presets.

There are two other issues.
- ZeniMax ToS grants mod authors full rights.
- Nexus is taking advance of UK leaving EU, where any creative author would regain legal rights for their work and distribution.

These are the sour points. If Nexus manages to address them, then fine by me. Let mod packs commence.

Right now they are taking advantage. Users will be as dumb and uncaring as they have always been, which will strain the time and patience of remaining mod authors even further.

Too many mod users are willing to deprive support from authors and they do not see any issues. And they still feel like it is somehow their "right" to get access to all the work that they gave zero contribution. Well, we are not entitled to get anything from them.

I have been working with few Fallout 4 mods for some time now. I do not plan on releasing them in Nexus at this time. It is more likely that I will use my own domain for distribution, if I get them done - at least until we know how Nexus ends up dealing with this mess in the long run. I will of course finish and release currently ongoing patch projects in Nexus. I already started and promised them, so pulling them off now wouldn't be fair for anyone.

[258789553873]

Which side are you even arguing? All that text just looks like incoherent rambling to me. And yes, I do endorse mods, and I also read the descriptions before downloading mods. I admit, I dislike as much as the next guy that mod authors make no money on their work, but what can you do? If you try to do it, you end up with ♥♥♥♥ like the Creation Club. Paying mod authors never ends well, sad of a truth as that may be. If a mod author wants to make money on their work, go make something for the creation club.

Removing mods is like building a park or art exhibit, and then demolishing it just because you weren't making any money on it. Why take down mods? What do they lose by leaving them up? Nothing. Removing mods takes work, and deprives others of the enjoyment they could've had. Besides, do they really think the nexus is going to budge? If everyone just removed all their mods from the skyrim pages, nexus probably wouldn't really care. They've never been ones to demonstrate maturity, or reason in the slightest. The nexus is obviously not wavering in their plans for this in the slightest. Even looking on the bright side, mod authors are fighting a battle they can't win. And for what? So people can't play Skyrim anymore? And think of the people who review mods on youtube. How are they going to deal with people removing mods shortly after they talk about them? How can they do what they do? Mod authors may not ever get paid, but at least they're making other people happy. Why take that away? Why take away what they accomplished for their work just because they want to delete mods forever for w/e reason. I would never delete a mod if I uploaded one. Why would I? I never liked it when other mod authors did it, and I see absolutely no benefit to it. As for Tel Nalta, I believe it recently got an update too. Now, its gone, and I'm certain we'll never see it again. Regardless of who's in the wrong here, the nexus has clearly demonstrated over the past ten years they don't give a rat's ass about anything. Mod authors are just killing the nexus for no possible gain.

Is this really how the game dies? Irrational people doing stupid stuff that doesn't make the slightest bit of sense? Is there no rationality in this world anymore? Does no one give a ♥♥♥♥ about others? Do people only care about money now? Once I play through all my quest mods, is that the end of Skyrim for me? Just because mod authors don't like archives for whatever non-sensical reason? You want to sabotage yourself, fine, do it, you deserve what you wrought, but now it seems half the nexus is doing this just for the hell of it.

I guess Skyrim's finally going to die. Nobody's going to be playing this thing when ES6 finally comes out. And for what? Just because the nexus tried to make modding easier for people who haven't been into the modding scene since it began? Misguided or not, why react like this? This is just utter madness. There's no sense to it. Am I really the only one that can see that?

[Ilja]

Originally posted by IXBlackWolfXI:

Which side are you even arguing?

Which side?
Maybe I am not black and white person. I don't need to take sides, when I am analyzing situation. I understand why Nexus is doing this, but I also understand why many (not all) mod authors are angry about it.

Originally posted by IXBlackWolfXI:

And yes, I do endorse mods, and I also read the descriptions before downloading mods. I admit, I dislike as much as the next guy that mod authors make no money on their work, but what can you do?

This has nothing to do about the money. This is about rights of creative authors, which you constantly ignore.

Let's take Curated Workshop for example. Fore didn't have a single coin to get back then, when he prohibited using his work as part of commercial mods. It wasn't about money, but about principle that mod using his work as part of commercial product got slapped by him. Eventually author pulled the mod away from Curated Workshop by his own initiative.

Originally posted by IXBlackWolfXI:

Does no one give a ♥♥♥♥ about others?

Honestly? You are the one acting irrationally and not giving a damn about others and their creative rights. You are not entitled to get any mods from anyone. If that does not please you, then start creating your own mods.

You know what? You managed to change my opinion. I will not release upcoming patches or mods in Nexus. If I have time to finish them, then I will release them under my own domain - with strict policy for not to include them to any Nexus mod packs. I don't care how many people use them. I make them to give fun for those who want want to use them - not for people feeling entitled to get them.

[258789553873]

How does that last bit make sense? Yeah, many mod users are too harsh on mod authors. Personally, I wouldn't pay much heed to them if I was one. When I post something on a mod page, I only mention incompatibilities I know of, technical stuff. I don't expect the mod author to make a patch of course, besides, I have the skill to make my own anyway, so its not like I need it.

Wanting to enjoy something isn't 'entitled'. Putting unfair demands on mod authors is entitled. What, if the Lord of the Rings was banned all books burned, would it be 'entitled' to wish you could've read it before this happened? Wouldn't you be upset at the people who did this?

As for your plan, how often do you think mod authors that do that actually get any recognition? I only know of two modding sites (unless you count the workshop and bethesda .net).

Besides, why do this with your fallout mods? The mod packs aren't for any game other than Skyrim as far as I know. Even mod authors who have taken down all their mods aren't removing the mods they've uploaded for other games, including fallout 4. You sound like one of these irrational mod authors who are completely blowing things out of proportion, and doing random things that haven't the slightest bit of sense to them.

[Ilja]

Mod packs are available for any game that has full support from Vortex. This includes Fallout 4. And thus, several mod authors - most notable ones being Steve40 and Damanding - have already removed their Fallout 4 mods from Nexus.

Originally posted by IXBlackWolfXI:

Wanting to enjoy something isn't 'entitled'. Putting unfair demands on mod authors is entitled. What, if the Lord of the Rings was banned all books burned, would it be 'entitled' to wish you could've read it before this happened? Wouldn't you be upset at the people who did this?

Sorry, but that chapter just proves how we are speaking about entirely different things. You are speaking about mod users having rights to access to something. They do not have any right to access on anything.

I am speaking about mod author rights to control their own creative content.

No third party is burning mods or books. Tolkien himself, however, would have been entirely within his right to burn his own manuscript. You wouldn't have anything to say about that.

[258789553873]

Okay, you're straight up psychotic and incoherent. You seriously need to seek therapy (and I'm not saying that to be insulting, I genuinely need it). You're making even less sense than ace3 right now.

[Ilja]

Originally posted by IXBlackWolfXI:

Okay, you're straight up psychotic and incoherent. You seriously need to seek therapy (and I'm not saying that to be insulting, I genuinely need it). You're making even less sense than ace3 right now.

Or, maybe you need to read my posts through again?

You took very black and white stand at first post. It looks to me that you can not comprehend that I have not taken entirely black and white stand on this.

As I said above, I understand what Nexus is doing - in both good and bad. I do not approve it at it's current form. I am hoping they would fix the glaring issues.

You keep ranting something bout "money" and whatnot, which is not in any way related to this matter. The "burning books" part came so far out of nowhere that you calling me incoherent became hilarious.

I am writing this in very calm mind and enjoying my free day from work. .

And once again you underline my point. I wouldn't want to share any mods for people like you. I like to share them to people who want them and have fun with them, but not to someone that expects someone just to provide them and give up all of their law given creative rights when doing so.

We are not even talking about same matters anymore, so let's leave it at that. We can discuss this further, after you have taken a breath and considered the situation a bit further.

Or not. All the same to me.

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by IXBlackWolfXI:

How does that last bit make sense? Yeah, many mod users are too harsh on mod authors. Personally, I wouldn't pay much heed to them if I was one. When I post something on a mod page, I only mention incompatibilities I know of, technical stuff. I don't expect the mod author to make a patch of course, besides, I have the skill to make my own anyway, so its not like I need it.

Wanting to enjoy something isn't 'entitled'. Putting unfair demands on mod authors is entitled. What, if the Lord of the Rings was banned all books burned, would it be 'entitled' to wish you could've read it before this happened? Wouldn't you be upset at the people who did this?

Wanting something isn't entitled.... Expecting something then complaining if you can't have it, that is entitled....

So wishing you had read Lord of the Rings is Ok, but demanding that they overturn your fictional ban and let you get a copy would be entitled...

[ＳＨＡＤＯＷ２ＫＫ]

Originally posted by IXBlackWolfXI:

Okay, you're straight up psychotic and incoherent. You seriously need to seek therapy (and I'm not saying that to be insulting, I genuinely need it). You're making even less sense than ace3 right now.

It is interesting to note that Ilja is not making personal attacks on you, yet you have twice in this thread already.

You do have some fair points, but so does Ilja.

There are other mods, there are other games.

[258789553873]

Originally posted by ＳＨＡＤＯＷ２ＫＫ:

Originally posted by IXBlackWolfXI:

Okay, you're straight up psychotic and incoherent. You seriously need to seek therapy (and I'm not saying that to be insulting, I genuinely need it). You're making even less sense than ace3 right now.

It is interesting to note that Ilja is not making personal attacks on you, yet you have twice in this thread already.

You do have some fair points, but so does Ilja.

There are other mods, there are other games.

How the hell is saying that he's going to do things I obviously don't like, and are morally questionable, because of 'people like me'? That's sickening and should warrant a permanent ban. I've never said anything like that to someone. I've never taken someone as an example of a community, that's how people become bigots. And I'm not doing something evil, people into art complain all the time when artwork is destroyed. This is normal, its not selfish, nobody likes seeing works being destroyed. What kind of a world do you people come from?

That last post was a blatant personal attack against me that came completely out of the blue. This board is genuinely hopeless if that obvious troll doesn't get reprimanded for this, which, to be honest, I doubt is going to happen given the bs that goes on here. Though I must say, I've never seen a comment as revolting as that. And this is a board that was dominated by racists not too long ago.

[ＳＨＡＤＯＷ２ＫＫ]

Originally posted by IXBlackWolfXI:

Originally posted by ＳＨＡＤＯＷ２ＫＫ:

It is interesting to note that Ilja is not making personal attacks on you, yet you have twice in this thread already.

You do have some fair points, but so does Ilja.

There are other mods, there are other games.

How the hell is saying that he's going to do things I obviously don't like, and are morally questionable, because of 'people like me'? That's sickening and should warrant a permanent ban. I've never said anything like that to someone. I've never taken someone as an example of a community, that's how people become bigots. And I'm not doing something evil, people into art complain all the time when artwork is destroyed. This is normal, its not selfish, nobody likes seeing works being destroyed. What kind of a world do you people come from?

That last post was a blatant personal attack against me that came completely out of the blue. This board is genuinely hopeless if that obvious troll doesn't get reprimanded for this, which, to be honest, I doubt is going to happen given the bs that goes on here. Though I must say, I've never seen a comment as revolting as that. And this is a board that was dominated by racists not too long ago.

Where is the racism, and you people?, that is directed at me?, you being racist now?, the projection is staggering.

You said to Ilja that he was straight up psychotic and incoherent, sounds like a personal attack to me, and you said it, could go and quote it, but what is the point.

Everyone who sees this thread might agree with you on some points but will not agree with the fact you are attacking people for no reason, it is a discussion board, people are gonna come out with differing viewpoints, you just seem to be clueless when it comes to mod authors and mods in general.

Please feel free to ignore this as you ignore the truth on other topics, like your awe inspiring inability to mod SSE properly with no issues, although if you were using mod packs and going off on a big whinge about mod authors daring to take stuff off, when it was them who done the work, and not you, then I am not surprised you failed at modding SSE.

Mod packs, incredible.

Ilja has never struck me as bigoted, you however, strike me a incredibly bitter and just enough knowledge to be dangerous and not all that great at modding period.

I did say you raised good points, I agree with some of the stuff you said, but the bottom line is this, and it is not invalid, it is not evil or anything else, mod authors have the right to withdraw their mods at any time, considering many "supporters" just post when it is being updated, and being entitled and demanding this, demanding that.

That strikes me as being selfish and "evil", Ilja referred to not making mods available to people like you, as you in some ways strike me as a person who uses mods and expects the mod author to do all this work and cannot do anything about his/her own work without consulting you or of like minded people.

Ilja has done a lot for the community, you not so much.

And still mystified by the bigotry and racism comments, no one cares if you are white black etc, we go by your actions on the forums, and you consistently come across as a whiner who thinks SSE is bad, mod pack authors should not do this, should not do that, and if anyone says differently, then they are bigots, etc etc.

No, maybe its just cos you are being foolish and people see through it.

But you seem pretty arrogant, so I doubt you will take anything on board and will continue to plague the forums with the usual anti this, anti that comments.

Not to say you do not come out with some good stuff here and there, but you seem to take things extremely personally and throw out all sorts of hissy fits and accusations with no basis in reality but your own.

[258789553873]

I've never thought about using mod packs, because I don't need to do that. Mod packs are for the noobs who have no clue what's out there, or how to do it properly.

As for my SE game, that clearly had nothing to do with modding. I removed all mods, re-installed the game without a single mod installed or enabled in nmm or the launcher or anywhere, deleted both the skyrim folders from steamapps and documents, and still, I could not enter dragonsreach without a crash. If I'm so inept, explain to me how I could be having a consistent stability issue that rendered me unable to do the main quest even if I hadn't a single mod installed? Its clearly not a mod issue, because it persists even if I clearly have no mods. If there are no mods, its not a mod issue. As for my not being able to run mods because I was running an outdated version (like everyone who plays SE obviously is), this was a known issue. Apparently bethesda released some feature in a patch that a lot of mods coming out were now using. Just look at a mod page on the SE nexus, and they will all say in their descriptions that version of the game you need at minium to run it. Read mod descriptions yourself.

Also, saying someone genuinely needs help isn't a 'direct attack'. Is calling someone who's suffering from hallucinations schizophrenic (assuming they meet the criteria) an 'insult'? If someone needs help, you don't ignore you, you tell them they need to go get checked. Pointing out that someone has a medical problem isn't an 'insult'. Threatening to do something because of a comment like 'people like you', IS an insult and straight bigotted. Even if he doesn't like me, which is pretty freaking obvious, why take it out on others? Who does that? Hate me all he wants, he's treating others like ♥♥♥♥ and claiming I AM THE REASON FOR THAT. How is that not a direct attack?

As for the psychosis thing, I will admit, I doubt that now, now I think Ilja's just a heinous monster that's looking to provoke a reaction. Who's right or wrong here means nothing, what Ilja said was wrong and shouldn't be tolerated here or anywhere else. I couldn't care less if I'm completely wrong and he's completely right, or vice versa. If Ilja straight up killed someone, would that mean what he did was good because of his comments about mod packs? NO. That's obvious and should be obvious. He crossed a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ line, and whose right or wrong here means nothing. NO ONE WHO MAKES A COMMENT LIKE THAT SHOULD BE ALLOWED HERE, EVEN IF THEY'RE THE BEST FREAKING MODDER IN THE HISTORY OF UNIVERSE.

You're obviously missing the point here, I posted something out of genuine concern only to have this person attack me and then have people accuse me of 'insulting' someone for suggesting they need help. I never expected this type of reaction, and obviously I'm shocked by it. At the very lest, Ilja needs to be removed from this board until he gets some meds or something. Of course, that may not be what he actually needs, more likely he's just a straight psychopath or sadist or something.

edit: And for the record, I couldn't care less if I was the target of this or not. Hell, I'd be just as outraged if that monster said something like that to SMR, who is someone I've obviously never gotten along with. This isn't about mod packs or who's right, what he did was blatantly wrong and obviously malicious. You're just a straight denialist if you can't see that. What, do you think the left is racist for liking colored people? Its literally the exact same logic. Not that I'm saying Ilja is racist, he may or may not be, regardless, he's clearly an evil person that shouldn't be welcome here in the slightest. Honestly, if I had my way, he would be ip banned from this place and every post he ever made deleted. I wouldn't wish that even on SMR, even though we clearly don't see eye to eye except on a blue moon. Ilja is a monster and there's no two ways about. What he's arguing means nothing, who's the target of this means nothing, who's in the right means nothing, what he said is utterly wrong and reprehensible completely regardless of all other factors.

[StreamWhenGuy]

BlackWolf forgot to take his pills again?

[258789553873]

I guess I shouldn't be making giant walls of text, because I don't even want to read what you and Ilja are posting anymore. I just skim the first few lines and move on, for the sake of my mental health (or more accurately, read as far as I can stomach). I guess you two did accomplish something; I don't even want to read your posts anymore, even though I do all the time for SMR (as much as I find his misinformation annoying).

[Lobo de hielo]

Damn I am glad I blocked this guy when I did.
But just to add coal to the fire:

"If someone owned a book of yours, do you think you have the right to take that book back and burn it if you don't like it anymore regardless of what the owner thought?"
If I was an author I would have the right to stop my book being published. But if you bought it you have the right to read it, burn it or ♥♥♥♥ on it....but hang on did you buy all these mods or did these modders do this for free?

"If they sold a painting to a museum, would they want to burn it if they decided they didn't like it themselves anymore, to hell with what anyone else thought? "

I want to destroy most of my past art but if someone has bought it (with contract).........Hang on they paid for it again!!!
Did you pay for these mods?