is it just me , or does magic suck late game?

[Zunymitshu]

I'm level 53 and despite having most of the spells in the game as well as some heavily enchanted gear for spamming, I feel like a set of self forged daggers trumps in the hands of someone w/ 80 one-handed trumps someone w/ 100 destruction. what gives?

[A Rock Seller]

Indeed it does suck. Same for many other things.

Incoming people telling you to get mods in order to fix it. Not really an excuse for a bad game but it should solve your problem.

In this game you're either too OP and wreck everything (stealth archer meme here) without even trying or you're too underpowered (anything having to do with the destruction school) and still wreck everything without even trying. Did I mention that it doesn't really matter? The combat in this game is so bad you can easily cheese through it with the worst spell you have on legendary.

[GrimCat]

Originally posted by Velox Banks:

Indeed it does suck. Same for many other things.

Incoming people telling you to get mods in order to fix it. Not really an excuse for a bad game but it should solve your problem.

In this game you're either too OP and wreck everything (stealth archer meme here) without even trying or you're too underpowered (anything having to do with the destruction school) and still wreck everything without even trying. Did I mention that it doesn't really matter? The combat in this game is so bad you can easily cheese through it with the worst spell you have on legendary.

Classic Mr. Banks.

[A Rock Seller]

Originally posted by jimanity:

Originally posted by Velox Banks:

Indeed it does suck. Same for many other things.

Incoming people telling you to get mods in order to fix it. Not really an excuse for a bad game but it should solve your problem.

In this game you're either too OP and wreck everything (stealth archer meme here) without even trying or you're too underpowered (anything having to do with the destruction school) and still wreck everything without even trying. Did I mention that it doesn't really matter? The combat in this game is so bad you can easily cheese through it with the worst spell you have on legendary.

Classic Mr. Banks.

The king is back. And it's not like he lied about what he said.

[GrimCat]

Originally posted by Velox Banks:

Originally posted by jimanity:

Classic Mr. Banks.

The king is back. And it's not like he lied about what he said.

Not at all. I often agree with what you say. Was suprised we didn't see ya back sooner with the SE release.
It's true, if you want Skyrim to truly shine you have to mod the crap out of it. Bethesda has become extremly lazy and rely on the modding community too much imo.

[The Rock God]

It's not magic that sucks late game (defined as at high level), it's certain schools. Alteration and Illusion are still useful at high levels. Restoration falls off a bit. Destruction doesn't scale well, but is still viable. Conjuration goes straight into the toilet.

I don't include Enchanting since it's not really magic, but more crafting. It's always good though.

[LAG]

Even the master level spells of destruction outright suck.

hell if i'm going to stand still for 5 seconds to channel up an aoe spell that does mediocre damage at best.

With the right echants you can get 100% reduction on spells(or close enough) and spam duel casting stun destrution spells. 100% in duel destruction/restoration makes you impossible to beat but you still have to put a hundred spells into every enemy...

vs 1 stealth arrow or a 30x extra damage dagger that can instakill even dragons, it's meh.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Destruction magic?
Yes.
Other magic?
No.
Destruction magic: cost alot of mana to stunlock an enemy.
Require's tricks to make destruction magic free to cast.

Conjuration:
Raise corpses as meatsheild's, summon elemetals and deadra as meatsheilds, have deadric weaponry that ways nothing, can steal souls and instantly banishes any summoned enemy(Note many npc's elementals and deamora dont count as summoned)

Illsion:
Need perks to work at higher level but is a simple version of mind control.
And mind control is overpowered as can be.
Clam: free backstab, able to walk everywhere.
Fear: run away from the near dead high elf who we could easly slay.
Rage: attack nearest person i dont care if you are my wife or child.
Courage: make allies even better.
I love using courage on my npc bodygaurd and see them wreck things for me.
You can play on legendery right from the get go if you are willing to let npc do the fighting for you.

Resoration:
Only the most diehard roleplayers will have never use the healing spell you start with.
For myself the real strenght in healing is heal other.
I kept entire armies alive(or atleast most of them) just by healing.
And the perks increase mana and stemina regenration aswhile as have a 1 per day instead 250 heal when near death.

Alteration: worthless from day 1.

Shouts: ancient powerfull magic that require dragon souls and alot of exploring.
And because for some reason you cant using magic without a free hand(like you could in oblivion) shouts have the added bonus of not taking up space.

Rant:
Magic doesnt suck in skyrim it sucks in all videogames.
And the reason for this is that videogame magic is just an other tool to be used by the player.
The player will never be able to summon entire armies(outside an rts and in rts most people can "build" armies anyway so it is just a flavor)
You know spell healing light wounds will heal 1d4 + spellcasting modifier.
I dont know a single game that allows the player to singlehandedly destroy entire planets with a snap of there finger's.
Because when i think of strong magic i think of drowning armies, sound wave's of undead fire elemntal's, blessing weapons with armor penetration and sheilding everything.
Rip a castle into the skype and use it as personal transport to the next group of idiots who thing swords and guns will let them survive metoar storms and lava monsters.
Any game where magic is powerfull the idiot wielding a big piece of metal will be irilivant.
And they dont like that.

Think about it:
In stories the bad guy can do some interesting stuff with magic the player can never copy.

[Justice]

Originally posted by Biscuit:

I'm level 53 and despite having most of the spells in the game

What about expert lvl magic spells of destruction? I never actually used them because of how much mana they cost, but it seems they are very powerfull spells

[A Rock Seller]

Originally posted by jimanity:

Originally posted by Velox Banks:

The king is back. And it's not like he lied about what he said.

Not at all. I often agree with what you say. Was suprised we didn't see ya back sooner with the SE release.
It's true, if you want Skyrim to truly shine you have to mod the crap out of it. Bethesda has become extremly lazy and rely on the modding community too much imo.

I'm likely here to stay this time. No promises but I've been itching to get the word out (again) for some time now. Would be a shame to leave just as I start making a name for myself around here.

[A Rock Seller]

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

Destruction magic?
Yes.
Other magic?
No.
Destruction magic: cost alot of mana to stunlock an enemy.
Require's tricks to make destruction magic free to cast.

Conjuration:
Raise corpses as meatsheild's, summon elemetals and deadra as meatsheilds, have deadric weaponry that ways nothing, can steal souls and instantly banishes any summoned enemy(Note many npc's elementals and deamora dont count as summoned)

Illsion:
Need perks to work at higher level but is a simple version of mind control.
And mind control is overpowered as can be.
Clam: free backstab, able to walk everywhere.
Fear: run away from the near dead high elf who we could easly slay.
Rage: attack nearest person i dont care if you are my wife or child.
Courage: make allies even better.
I love using courage on my npc bodygaurd and see them wreck things for me.
You can play on legendery right from the get go if you are willing to let npc do the fighting for you.

Resoration:
Only the most diehard roleplayers will have never use the healing spell you start with.
For myself the real strenght in healing is heal other.
I kept entire armies alive(or atleast most of them) just by healing.
And the perks increase mana and stemina regenration aswhile as have a 1 per day instead 250 heal when near death.

Alteration: worthless from day 1.

Shouts: ancient powerfull magic that require dragon souls and alot of exploring.
And because for some reason you cant using magic without a free hand(like you could in oblivion) shouts have the added bonus of not taking up space.

Rant:
Magic doesnt suck in skyrim it sucks in all videogames.
And the reason for this is that videogame magic is just an other tool to be used by the player.
The player will never be able to summon entire armies(outside an rts and in rts most people can "build" armies anyway so it is just a flavor)
You know spell healing light wounds will heal 1d4 + spellcasting modifier.
I dont know a single game that allows the player to singlehandedly destroy entire planets with a snap of there finger's.
Because when i think of strong magic i think of drowning armies, sound wave's of undead fire elemntal's, blessing weapons with armor penetration and sheilding everything.
Rip a castle into the skype and use it as personal transport to the next group of idiots who thing swords and guns will let them survive metoar storms and lava monsters.
Any game where magic is powerfull the idiot wielding a big piece of metal will be irilivant.
And they dont like that.

Think about it:
In stories the bad guy can do some interesting stuff with magic the player can never copy.

Not sure how Skyrim's sh*tty magic system made you think that magic in all games sucks. Not sure and not gonna ask you to elaborate. All I know is that you're the first person to say such a thing. You really haven't looked into other games all that well if you think every other magic system comes close to being as sad as that in Skyrim.

Sorry for coming off as a pr*ck but I'm honestly kinda salty that you would speak less of other games simply because Skyrim is sh*t.

[gloops]

Destruction is very effective in conjunction with alchemy. Wear Zahkriisos, chug a +100pt fortify destruction potion and, with the augmented shock perks, you can fire off 230 damage thunderbolts with each hand. With dual casting the damage goes even higher. Zaps most high level enemies in 2 or 3 hits.

[MorningStar625]

I use several magic mods: Executioner, Apocalypse, Forbidden magic, Midas Magic. I don't know which ones did which but they did really well for me.

[GrimCat]

Originally posted by jonathanjnale:

I use several magic mods: Executioner, Apocalypse, Forbidden magic, Midas Magic. I don't know which ones did which but they did really well for me.

I use these with the Ordinator/SPER.G perk overhaul. Makes magic a lot of fun.

[Shellbie]

Conjuration is the only skill who stays relevant until level 50.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by Velox Banks:

Not sure how Skyrim's sh*tty magic system made you think that magic in all games sucks. Not sure and not gonna ask you to elaborate. All I know is that you're the first person to say such a thing. You really haven't looked into other games all that well if you think every other magic system comes close to being as sad as that in Skyrim.

Sorry for coming off as a pr*ck but I'm honestly kinda salty that you would speak less of other games simply because Skyrim is sh*t.

It depends on your definition of power.
When i think of magic i think of summoning storms, command armies of undead, elementals, etc, have spells that open door for you, travel between dimentions, basicly godlike power in the body of a mortal(fun fact: the goal of most magic uses is inmortality because being a godlike mortal that will one day die suck's :P)
Most games the biggest power i get is trowing a slightly large fireball.
This is because giving the player godlike power means it becomes impossible to control the player experiance.
After all if the player can just teleport wherever he pleases how do you get him into an ambush?
How can you programe a spell that allows a player to teleport whereever he wants?
How many summon can your avarge pc handle?
20?
20 is not an army that is a sqaud.
And if you give a player 20 fire elementals how is anything a thread to them?

Most wizardly badguys pay for there awesome power with there low health.
It is why they prefeer to avoid fighting the heroes themself because while.....most of them dont have discovered the means you to come back from death, prevent death also a blade in your chest hurt like hell.

And that is where the problem lies.
To give a player the power i consider magic to have.
They have to make it so that it can break the game.

A few simple example's:
The spell i missed most from oblivion is open lock.
It isnt even an offensive spell and it is for some reason not in skyrim(thank god for mods)
Or waterbreating, conjure armor.
Stuff that does nothing in combat but is simply handy to have.
In sims 3 supernature the wizard magic can upgrade appiance, fix stuff, raise the dead, heal, etc.
In D&D the wizard has dimnetional door's, raise small sqauds of undead, have fireball's that will murder or heavly damage everything in the room.
In movies wizard's can transmute nearly anything.
In games you are lucky if you can do flesh to stone(D&D).
Buldar's gate has a horrible combat system but the ability to see the entire map via spell is awesome.
Most recent games however threat magic as just an other from attack.
Gone are the days of magic being magic.