Console Help

[travel]

So belethor died and in my infite wisdom i resurrected him somehow. except he has two dialogue options and sits around doing nothing, wont purchase. there are plenty of other merchants but its annoying.

[GrimCat]

Yep. Console is a debugging tool. Unless you use it improperly. Then it's a bugging tool. I take it that you can't take it back to an earlier save?

[JonWoo]

He died? Did he get thrown out of a window or fall down the stairs?

[travel]

I believe he was killed by a vampire as was adrianne advicci and ulfric warbear, effectively closing down white run for quick sales. i got ulfric back by going to an old save but belethor just stands around doing nothing and adriannes corpse is in front of breeze holm

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by travel:

So belethor died and in my infite wisdom i resurrected him somehow. except he has two dialogue options and sits around doing nothing, wont purchase. there are plenty of other merchants but its annoying.

Death script has run, he no longer has any function.
Worse, because he is now alive and the game thinks he's dead it will cause CTDs.

Load a save from before you used the console command.

[King Robert Baratheon]

I would just use this mod from now on if I were you. I barely found out about it so I can't guarantee that it works, but it supposedly stops vampire attacks from happening in towns/cities entirely.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/31088

I would have this installed as well though. Even if you don't need it for vampires, it will help prevent npc's dying in a dragon attack. It makes guards tell npc's to run inside and npc's will actually run inside their homes or the nearest building during a dragon attack.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/23906/

[travel]

Originally posted by King Robert Baratheon:

I would just use this mod from now on if I were you. I barely found out about it so I can't guarantee that it works, but it supposedly stops vampire attacks from happening in towns/cities entirely.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/31088

I would have this installed as well though. Even if you don't need it for vampires, it will help prevent npc's dying in a dragon attack. It makes guards tell npc's to run inside and npc's will actually run inside their homes or the nearest building during a dragon attack.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/23906/

better then running to the vampire and getting killed because i cant swing around their dumb asses. Hell if it was one or two vampire vs guards ok, why oh why do the spwn npcs run to him.

[King Robert Baratheon]

Originally posted by travel:

Originally posted by King Robert Baratheon:

I would just use this mod from now on if I were you. I barely found out about it so I can't guarantee that it works, but it supposedly stops vampire attacks from happening in towns/cities entirely.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/31088

I would have this installed as well though. Even if you don't need it for vampires, it will help prevent npc's dying in a dragon attack. It makes guards tell npc's to run inside and npc's will actually run inside their homes or the nearest building during a dragon attack.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/23906/

better then running to the vampire and getting killed because i cant swing around their dumb asses. Hell if it was one or two vampire vs guards ok, why oh why do the spwn npcs run to him.

It is really damn annoying when npc's crowd around a vampire and I can't attack because I would definitely hit one of them. Sometimes I just have to wait until the vampire dies, a npc dies to the vampire, or the vampire breaks loose and gives me a chance to attack it. Like I said though, those mods should prevent npc's from attacking vampires and dying.

Another thing. I don't know if this is because I have the mod Cutting Room Floor installed but in my game, if Belethor dies while Ysolda is nearby, Ysolda will almost immediately take up Belethor's position as the owner of that general goods store. I can buy stuff from her just like I did with Belethor. I've done it intentionally to make her the new owner because I find Belethor really annoying. Other people have made posts on forums about it too.

https://www.google.com/search?q=skyrim+ysolda+taking+over+belethor%27s+shop&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS882US883&oq=skyrim+ysolda+taking+over+belethor%27s+shop&aqs=chrome..69i57.22531516j0j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by travel:

Originally posted by King Robert Baratheon:

I would just use this mod from now on if I were you. I barely found out about it so I can't guarantee that it works, but it supposedly stops vampire attacks from happening in towns/cities entirely.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/31088

I would have this installed as well though. Even if you don't need it for vampires, it will help prevent npc's dying in a dragon attack. It makes guards tell npc's to run inside and npc's will actually run inside their homes or the nearest building during a dragon attack.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/23906/

better then running to the vampire and getting killed because i cant swing around their dumb asses. Hell if it was one or two vampire vs guards ok, why oh why do the spwn npcs run to him.

Because Vampire is between him and a safe place.
Game's AI leaves a lot to be desired...... in fact I have yet to read anything nice about the AI in this game, and I've been on these forums since launch.

[Altbert]

There's no such thing as a single death script! The WIDeadBodyCleanupScript will move Belethor to a special holding cell after 12 ingame days, The game does NOT "know" if Belethor has died or not, although quests and scripts can scan the holding cell to check if an NPC has died. whether dead or alive (dead or resurrected), after 12 ingame days. This was the easiest thing to do, according to a comment of the developers in the WI scripts. Only family members and friends may have "knowledge" of an NPCs death, but only for 7 ingame days, when added to various mourning factions, to provide family and friends with appropriate dialogs. Belethor doesn't have any family or friends, so one of the other "death scripts" will not add anyone to the "mourning factions". Example: If you would address Ulberth War-Bear soon after Adrianne Avenicci has died and ask him where he gets his merchandise, he will tell you that he gets his wares from outside the city "ever since his wife died".

As said, there are many death scripts, not just a single one! The WI death scripts take care of cleaning up bodies, counting the number of kills (e.g. Civil War, Thieves Guild), the type of kills (e.g. walking the 7,000 steps). Various NPCs may also have a special "death script" attached, either attached to their reference alias in a quest or attached to their base object.

Ysolda will only be running the shop if the Unofficial Patch is installed. With the patch she is added to the WhiterunBelethorsGoodsFaction.

If OP doesn't have a save available, maybe the following might provide a solution, although I have not tested this.

; Add Belethor to the WINoBodyCleanupFaction
"0001A672".addtofaction "0009653A"
; Remove Ysolda from the WhiterunBelethorsGoodsFaction
"0001A69A".addtofaction "00093B17" -1
; Add Belethor to the WhiterunBelethorsGoodsFaction
; if he is removed from that faction
"0001A672".addtofaction "00092B17"
; Add Belethor to the ServicesWhiterunBelethorsGoods faction
; if he is removed from that faction
"0001A672".addtofaction "0009CAF5"
; After 12 ingame days remove Belthor from the cleanup faction
"0001A672".addtofaction "0009653A" -1

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by smr1957:

Thanks to Ilja, cfs111, and all others in the Coffee Room group for supplying and sharing their knowledge and experience - a combined knowledge base of probably well over 100,000 hours.


"Console is a debug tool. It does not pass event and AI scripts, or undo scripts that have been already been ran. I have stressed several times that using resurrect is among those commands that you should never use in Skyrim.

If the character you resurrected was dead, then using the command does not undo death scripts that have already been ran. Game AI gets confused and in 99% of cases you will just have a no-good character wandering around. In worse cases, death scritps will have run other scripts and suddenly "alive" character starts to cause conflicts in the game.

If the character you "resurrected" is alive (and in this case a quest character), then scripts affecting to this character now has double targets, messing up the game AI royally.

Load a save from before using unsafe console command. Do not try to undo it in any other way, because Skyrim stores script data to save files and there is absolutely no way to clean them 100% from them. Even Bethesda didn't manage to do so." - Ilja

http://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/451848854985133583/

AND:
"If you don't know what you're doing, using console commands can cause your game to malfunction! Executing the wrong command can cause your game to stop working normally; furthermore, you may not become aware of such malfunctions right away, and you may not be able to trace their cause. They can cause problems like making quests impossible to complete, altering your game's display, all kinds of game behaviors, your ability to play your character, and your ability to play the game at all. Solutions are not always easy, and may involve losing saved games or reinstalling your game.
Create a permanent saved game before using the console. (This mitigates only some kinds of risks.) If you need to use the console to fix a glitch, try to use the least powerful command possible."
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Console - cited by cfs111
Mini tutorial on the console here;
General Discussion and Tutorial Pages
http://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/485622866435280490/
(Under Contents by Post Number, see: 3. Console Mini Tutorial - cfs111 - Posts # 76-81 - starting here: http://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/485622866435280490/?ctp=6#c485622866440267682 )

http://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/451848854987583992/#c451848855002328904

ALSO:
Player.placeatme and Resurrect
Two commands that should never be used on unique NPCs.

Player.placeatme
From: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Form_ID
"...the command player.placeatme <BaseID> will create a new copy of an object and place it at the player's position. This is fine with most items or generic creatures.With unique NPCs however, a second copy will usually cause problems with quests and such. In that case, one could move the NPC to the player with the command sequence:
prid <RefID>
moveto player
For most items, creating extra copies does no harm, so player.additem <BaseID> <quantity> can be used to add the desired quantity of items to the player's inventory. Quest-specific items, however, will suffer from the same problems as unique NPCs, since the quest will often be tied to specific RefIDs for objects, not their BaseIDs. Also, RefIDs can only be used if the object in question is loaded into memory; visiting the cell of the object can assure this. See the console article for further commands and uses of form IDs for other types of things."

Resurrecting Named Characters
When an NPC dies, the game runs a death script - this cannot be undone. The only way to "revive" an NPC that the game has marked as dead is to load a previous save from before the NPC died. While resurrecting with the console may seem to work, the game still sees the NPC as dead, so dialogue, actions, and quests that depend upon that NPC will not run. Also, you should be extremely careful when using console commands, as they can break your game - and if you do use a command, always make a hard save before using the command.

(Note: These two mods help prevent NPCs being killed by Vampire or Dragon attacks:
When Vampires Attack by Arthmoor - http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/28235/?
Run For Your Lives by Arthmoor - http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/23906/? )

"You should never resurrect any named characters in Skryim. Game runs death scripts for each of them. Using resurrect command does not undo these scripts and there is no known way to reverse them.

Resurrecting character that has death script records in save file usually ends up badly. In best case scenario you get a useless NPC that is not tied to any quest and is cut out of the progress. In worse case scenario you get NPC that is comes constantly more and more bugged, tangling game scripts even further and ends up making a real mess out of your game.

Resurrect is among commands that has been classed as dangerous and should not be used in a game. It is a developer test command and should be treated as such. If you already made a mistake of using that command, then load a save before that." - Ilja

http://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/405692758710158199/#c405692758710646756

Ilja:
"Skyrim runs death scripts to all named characters. Resurrecting them through console does not undo the script. As far as game knows, -character- is dead and remains that way.

Effects for using Resurrect command vary. Some characters may act and talk as usual, but very often - especially with merchants and quest characters - game will get bugged, when it is no longer running scripts to dead characters, but those (as being "resurrected") are trying to cause scripts to run."
http://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/351660338700199057/#c351660338700216175

AND:

"Problems with resurrect have bee documented far and wide in this forum. You will notice the conflict sooner or later, especially if merchant character dies."
http://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/351660338700199057/#c351660338700279973

See also:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/451848854987583992/#c451848855002328904

http://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/451848854985133583/


REGARDING RECYCLEACTOR:

"Recycleactor does refresh the character, but as far as I know, it does not undo death scripts.

I can't see why it would, seeing that it basically just restores the character. That character may be "refreshed", but death scripts and stand-in triggers should still be active." - Ilja

http://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/405692758710158199/#c405692758710784953

IN ADDITION:
Explanation of Resurrect function:
by Ilja
"I think it is best to explain resurrect a bit further. I might actually make a full post about it.

Biggest risks come down to scenes. Each character participating scenes has an alias. These aliases are required to be filled by Papyrus, when the scene starts. Here are few common cases about how the use of console can affect to them.

Scene starts, but character is dead. There is no character to fill alias. If script does not intercept the event, then Papyrus will try to fill the alias - over and over again. This will reserve all available Papyrus time, often preventing other scripts from running.

In this case locating the missing character, resurrecting them and bringing them to scene to fill alias can be helpful. Of course, you would need to have a log and know what you are looking at, including how to get rid of such character later, so that using console would not break the game even further.

Second scenario. Scene starts. Game considers one of the participants dead, but player has actually resurrected that character. Scripts may bring this character in to scene and attempts to fill alias. This may or may not work, depending on scene and other scripts (including mod scripts) running around.

Again, Papyrus will get stuck, trying to figure out which alias it needs to fill. Solution sounds easy: load a previous save and kill the character.

Reality is not that easy. Scene may have been initialized several saves ago, if you have been running around the area. Script to cut it may fail, because it is going against Bethesda's design, while trying to fill alias for a present "dead" character. Again: you might have to start making logs and trying to figure out when and where the scene got stuck - if you even figure out what is going on.

The more characters you have resurrected, the more changes the game has to use at some point initialize a scene. This also means that game has even more changes to fail filling aliases and completing the scene.

Civil War is a PITA in this. There are plenty of scenes and civilian characters are prompted to locations around times. This means that game will try to fill more than few aliases at the same time. Each character that is affected - and not necessarily even a quest giver or merchant - will be positioned.

For example: Battle of Whiterun, where some characters you have moved away from the city through HF DLC (or mods) will be there to get involved. If game finds such characters, then it will bring them in to scenes. Them being "dead" may still cause game to attempt fill aliases and cause Papyrus exceed it's limits.

I really do not recommend resurrecting characters, just because you can. If you do resurrect a character, then do that only for 1st scenario (if you know what you are doing) and then get rid of them for good. Otherwise: find and load an earlier save, where scene is not stuck."

http://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/133256959379908095/?tscn=1487016428#c133256959380839601

and:

"I think that one of the problems here is that people do not know what scenes are. They are not necesarily a grand events.

Let's take Ysolda for example. She has few very well known conversations in Whiterun Marketplace.
- Did you raice your prices Carlotta? (With Carlotta)
- Are you still working at the Bannered Mare? (With Olfina.)

Those are examples of scenes. They repeat themselves ever day, if your character is present to initialize them.

Death script will prevent scenes from running. Resurrecting any of the characters in these scenes (Ysolda, Carlotta or Oflina) has a change of causing aliases to try filling themselves again and fail.

Every city you visit has several few scenes around. You can see people turning to speak to each other, do something together etc. They repeat daily, or after certain events in game. These scenes are meant to make the world feel more alive.

You have all seen these secens and you all know they repeat themselves. Stop a while to think how many times you have seen them happening in your game. Each time is a potential risk, with resurrected character related to these scenes, or larger event scenes.

I have lost count how many times someone in this forum has complained about making a "harmless resurrect of poor Ysolda" and then messing up the game royally. Her essential flag is removed after A Night to Remember and she can die.

She is involved in Whiterun Civil War scene, has at least two daily scenes and is a replacement option for three stores in Whiterun. That makes her one of the most dangerous characters to get resurrected in the game.

There are other examples of equally big problems, but think that explanation around Ysolda is enouogh.

Almost every mod that adds extra characers and events have some sort of scenes included. These may be restricted to custom characters, or interaction may happen between vanilla characters. Papyrus does not know the difference. Each of them counts."
http://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/133256959379908095/?tscn=1487015775#c133257324786127579

[Altbert]

Originally posted by alexander_dougherty:

Not inserting the whole quote

If you would have taken the trouble to check whatever Belethor is involved in, you might have found that he is not involved in any quest or in any scene. He is just attending his business from 8am till 8pm, from 8pm till 12pm wandering the streets of Whiterun and sleeping in his house the what time is left. He only interacts with the player which is not a scene in a quest.

I will agree with you, smr1957, cfs111, ilja and possible others on many things, but not on all things, as many issues are being generalized. What's valid for one NPC doesn't have to be valid for another! The game's AI is far too inconsistent for that!

Simply using the resurrect, the recycleactor and maybe other commands may be not enough. You will need a good understanding of quests (including scenes), scripts, AI packages, etc., when using console commands. Yes, there are many posts simply suggesting to use the resurrect command without any consideration. This is one end of the issue (as seen in many posts), the other end is generalizing the issue.

I try to help players as much as I can, as you do, but don't accept everything that is written, check it out yourself! Sometimes I may be wrong. I will be the first to admit I'm wrong.

[Docsprock]

Originally posted by Altbert:

Originally posted by alexander_dougherty:

Not inserting the whole quote

If you would have taken the trouble to check whatever Belethor is involved in, you might have found that he is not involved in any quest or in any scene. He is just attending his business from 8am till 8pm, from 8pm till 12pm wandering the streets of Whiterun and sleeping in his house the what time is left. He only interacts with the player which is not a scene in a quest.

I will agree with you, smr1957, cfs111, ilja and possible others on many things, but not on all things, as many issues are being generalized. What's valid for one NPC doesn't have to be valid for another! The game's AI is far too inconsistent for that!

Simply using the resurrect, the recycleactor and maybe other commands may be not enough. You will need a good understanding of quests (including scenes), scripts, AI packages, etc., when using console commands. Yes, there are many posts simply suggesting to use the resurrect command without any consideration. This is one end of the issue (as seen in many posts), the other end is generalizing the issue.

I try to help players as much as I can, as you do, but don't accept everything that is written, check it out yourself! Sometimes I may be wrong. I will be the first to admit I'm wrong.

I am likely going to insult just about everyone on this forum, except you Altbert.

The trouble is this: I think you are giving far too much credit to the average Skyrim player. While I have not tried your resurrecting method, (and probably never will), I am sure it works. But just because it works, (likely), does not mean everyone should do it. Not everyone should mod their game either.

There are software engineers, programmers and modders who would be able to use your method, (guide), without issue. Even advanced users I am sure. But around here, where the n00bs hang out and the average gamer is struggling with getting a few mods to work, doling out the information you have will just cause a tsunami of further broken games.

I believe it is far easier to dissuade the use of console than to be committed and responsible to aid the masses who make a keystroke error. There are already so many broken game issues due to user error, it is difficult to keep up with them all.

I am probably way off-base here, but perhaps you could at least include a disclaimer that all console actions are done at-your-own-risk.

All in all, your guide is well written and could be used by many people with elementary knowledge of the game. But just think of the Children!

[Altbert]

@Docsprock:

Thanks! I will definitely add a disclaimer to my guide. I forgot all about that. I really got irritated by the fact that you only read about undocumented resurrection methods in various posts all over the internet, but also about the undocumented claims not to do so, both sides never posting any proof for their claims.

[travel]

Originally posted by alexander_dougherty:

Originally posted by travel:

better then running to the vampire and getting killed because i cant swing around their dumb asses. Hell if it was one or two vampire vs guards ok, why oh why do the spwn npcs run to him.

Because Vampire is between him and a safe place.
Game's AI leaves a lot to be desired...... in fact I have yet to read anything nice about the AI in this game, and I've been on these forums since launch.

of the many things i loved about this game AI was not one. I find im not as young as i once was. 3 hours to complete a quest a long time, hurts my back. I cant plan days of non stop questing anymore. Getting old is hard. I doubt i can lvl another save this high, ironically ive barely touched the quests. Grinded money for 50 lvls and got nowhere. Well i built a crappy house, learned alot. I cant even micro well. I need two new full sets of armor now from scratch. Maybe one i can get away with. annoying. Im specced mage for 50 lvls but destruct just doesnt have enough variety even when you reduce spell cost to zero. i can chain an elder dragon to death easy with no mana worries. But anything more then a single creature to chain stun im not doing great. I have no artifacts yet except spellbreaker so ive got alot to gain. I specced my perks kinda crappy so im a glass cannon. 70 in destruct archery sneak pick pocket one handed. 40 or less in everything else. combat related. smithing and enchanting mastered. I always do this lol.

[Simple Man]

Originally posted by travel:

snip

If this game does one thing right, is giving you a whole range of tools to do different things (or things differently).

Vampires don't like fire, they're pretty weak against it. What uses fire? conjuration has fire in the form of atronachs, and you can purchase the book from Farengar (Dragonsreach, Whiterun) even if you are not at all proficient, and have aptitude of 1.

Now whenever you see vampires, cast a flame atronach right at their position, you don't need to micro as your summon is completely automated, its fire aura alone will damage and potentially kill the vampires (and just the vampires, it doesn't harm friendlies), the damage its doing will draw all their attention, which in turn keeps the townfolk safe, and you didn't have to hurt your back doing it.

And destruction has plenty of variety, its arguably the most intricate tree in the game (don't need to burn yourself out grinding enchanting to get gear either). You can kill people just from standing next to them with an active fire cloak. You can kill a dragon just from casting a couple of ignites (the dragonborn DLC skill). Legendary difficulty.

Skyrim only takes a bit of learning, once you got the hang of it you're flying and your back is fine.