[Lore Talk] How does Sovngarde work?

[Sinistar]

I've been doing research on Sovngarde and death in Skyrim all together reccently, I've read that in Sovngarde, you can drink, brawl, and party until you are "ready to give another shot at life". What does that actually mean?

Will you be reborn into a new host in a baby with no memory like the Dreamsleeve, or will you just be plopped back in Skyrim and be healthy?

I've also looked upon requirements to get into Sovngarde, (which they are not a lot of) but mainly is "you are not judged how you live, but how you die"

A story a friend of mine is working on calls for a female nord who barely killed anyone, (at least 10 people) and slipped ito a coma from shock after her arm was chopped off in an imperial raid, she is later chopped in half by an imperial official to "send a message" as she's the youngest in the army while she lays motionless in a healing temple while still in a coma, so she's wondering if her character would have made it to Sovngarde, or slip into the Dreamsleeve.

Roggvir would be another case because he didn't die fighting, he died by execution in Solitude. I've heard the argument for why you don't see him in Sovngarde being, "Aludin ate his soul", "We don't see all of Sovngarde in the actual game".

[fauxpas]

The various afterlifes, whether that is the Divines or the Princes basically put your soul "on hold" for the dreamsleeve; so your soul gets to still be "you" until the next kappa when everything gets recycled.


As for Roggvir, eh, does being executed for your beliefs count as "dying honorably"? ... We don't actually know although since Sovngarde is basically Valhalla I don't think it does, but either way I'd rule that being murder while in a coma doesn't grant you entrance unless you were some great hero in life.

[Sinistar]

Originally posted by fauxpas:

The various afterlifes, whether that is the Divines or the Princes basically put your soul "on hold" for the dreamsleeve; so your soul gets to still be "you" until the next kappa when everything gets recycled.


As for Roggvir, eh, does being executed for your beliefs count as "dying honorably"? ... We don't actually know although since Sovngarde is basically Valhalla I don't think it does, but either way I'd rule that being murder while in a coma doesn't grant you entrance unless you were some great hero in life.

I would say so as well, but from the knowledge I've collected so far it appears to factor into what you we're fighting for, if you fought for what you believed in up until the end, something Roggvir and the female nord couldn't do, you didn't fight, you slip to the Dreamsleeve, which is where my confusion comes from, they fought for what they believed in, but couldn't defend themselves at the end.

[fauxpas]

I think it might be more about the glory of your death (and life too) as if I remember correctly Ulfric gets in despite being executed in the end, either by Tullius or the Dragonborn herself.

[Sinistar]

Originally posted by fauxpas:

I think it might be more about the glory of your death (and life too) as if I remember correctly Ulfric gets in despite being executed in the end, either by Tullius or the Dragonborn herself.

Thats also true as well, I'll have to see what others think to get different perspectives, though I believe your on the right track

[Eternie]

If trying to work out if Roggvir would make it into Souvegard ... he would still have to face Shor.
Facing Shor is like facing your worst fears such that if you have conviction you will most probably get in. So I'd guess he does or did unless eaten by alduin.

As for someone who is chopped in half they would have a tough time fighting off shor!

[Sinistar]

Originally posted by Eternie:

If trying to work out if Roggvir would make it into Souvegard ... he would still have to face Shor.
Facing Shor is like facing your worst fears such that if you have conviction you will most probably get in. So I'd guess he does or did unless eaten by alduin.

As for someone who is chopped in half they would have a tough time fighting off shor!

To be fair Torygg made it and he was "Shouted apart"

[fauxpas]

Originally posted by Fatha Blitzkrieg:

Originally posted by Eternie:

If trying to work out if Roggvir would make it into Souvegard ... he would still have to face Shor.
Facing Shor is like facing your worst fears such that if you have conviction you will most probably get in. So I'd guess he does or did unless eaten by alduin.

As for someone who is chopped in half they would have a tough time fighting off shor!

To be fair Torygg made it and he was "Shouted apart"

Eh; that "shouted apart" is a clear embellisment; Ulfric knocked him to his knees with Unrelenting Force and then pierced his heart with a sword.



However with that said; one of the stables of the afterlife is that you appear in death as you did in life; so missing heads or even being cut in twine wouldn't be an issue.

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by fauxpas:

Originally posted by Fatha Blitzkrieg:

To be fair Torygg made it and he was "Shouted apart"

Eh; that "shouted apart" is a clear embellisment; Ulfric knocked him to his knees with Unrelenting Force and then pierced his heart with a sword.

Actually there are several versions of the story in the game, and most have ulric doing far more than merely knocking Torygg to his knees with his shout. In all probability it was more like Ulric severly injured Torygg with his shout, possibly broken bones and torn ligaments, and then finished him off with his sword, rather than merely knocking him down.

[fauxpas]

Originally posted by alexander_dougherty:

Originally posted by fauxpas:

Eh; that "shouted apart" is a clear embellisment; Ulfric knocked him to his knees with Unrelenting Force and then pierced his heart with a sword.

Actually there are several versions of the story in the game, and most have ulric doing far more than merely knocking Torygg to his knees with his shout. In all probability it was more like Ulric severly injured Torygg with his shout, possibly broken bones and torn ligaments, and then finished him off with his sword, rather than merely knocking him down.

That's just it though; all of those strories sound like typical "tall tale" exaggerations; and when you actually see what Ulfric is able to do with his Thrum in game; his version of the story lines up with what we get to see.

[liosalpha]

tbh from a civilisation point of view Sovngarde is kind of counter productive.
Couse you need some sinsir strive in order to claim to be fighting for glory.. Imagian fighting in a peacefull nation where there is just brawling for fun and games or some good septims. there is hardly andy glory in that.
Then there is the thing that is you do manage to get to nord heaven. you have this lumvbering tree of a guy, making sure you realy belong there. you will also be seperated from everyone you love, unless your loved one where fierce honnerble warriors too that died in battle.
In a way ulfric might be true in that regard, opening a path for the nords to Sovngarde regardless of the side they pick. (explaing why rikki ulfric togygg and others that seem contradicting, can end up in it.

In the rl norse myths/lore it was not a place for being happely ever after like we do think of heaven. It was a place where the best of the best where collected to fight of the litteral end of times. Ragnarok. thou Skyrim would have been cool to in clude random valkyries collecting people from the dead.

[fauxpas]

None of the afterlifes that we are aware of in TES are "fluffy cloud happy" like the modern intrupation of Heaven is. The phrase "one man's hell is another man's heaven" is very much true; but if you value your soul remaining "you" for as long as possible you have to earn your way into either one of the Divine's afterlife or one of the Prince's; because otherwise you go straight into the dreamsleeve and get shredded and the energies combined into a new soul.


And the kicker is that as I understand it; even if you earn your way into the afterlife; all you've done is delay having your soul shredded until the end of this Kappa; I'm not sure if even CHIM can save you in the end from that.

[liosalpha]

The game does sketch it as a final destination, resting in endeless boosting and booz.
(besides the frond lawn witch is basicly a pantry for alduin.)

To be fair i dont think most nords know what the dreamsleeve is. (its mentioned like once by an ancient necromancer. and explained minimaly in the official fanfiction...) so even if that is the big overal arch of the divine and etherial cosmos, its not how its practished in common faith. Even the notion that "people are getting what they are expecting as afterlife befor being recycled in to the dreamsleeve" is contradicting.

But still it interessting to read this stuff.
To come back to the OP question. think she would go to sovngard. Simple cause she belives in it.
Even if that failes, her last memeories where of battle in wich she was mortaly wonded. for al she knows she had bled out.

[fauxpas]

Well to be fair; virtually no one (in game) understands that that underlaying truth in TES is a quantum fuzzy vaguely Easternish cycle than the mostly western vibes that the game protrays.