Hold on, just HOLD THE F**K ON....

[Mojo Jojo]

WTF the Skull boss of world 3-2 is final boss? Then back to the start to do again?.

[Samsquamch]

Good job, dude! I didn't think you would persevere. You can try it again without starting with a ranged mutation, or starting with a quirk. Then there's unlocking stuff, like different endings etc.

[Mojo Jojo]

This roguelike business i dont think ill tackle again....

I STAYED THE COURSE AND GAVE THIS GAME A CHANCE......then just when i was starting to like it and beat the skull guy, im hit with THATS THE WHOLE GAME?.

This has been a super crazy experience i must say. But dear god, surely it cant be this shallow of actual game playing (longevity) content?.

[Santiak]

It's the nature of rogue games, really. The content isn't found in lengthy storylines and grandiose campaigns, but in variation and experimentation.

You've probably unlocked a bunch of quirks, some weapons, and you probably still have undiscovered mutations.
The longevity comes in the form of those.

Can you complete the game with Cobruh?
With Firearm?
With a different bat?
What combos can you find?
What works well for you?
Can you complete the game without assist features?
How overpowered can you get?
How will the next run pan out?
How long a streak can you get?
Can you complete the game using the unlocked quirks?
What secrets haven't you discovered?
What's the purpose of the big glowing rock?
What's with the ruined arcade?
How well can you place on the daily challenges?

Completing the game once is the proverbial drop in the ocean. It's one run in hundreds if not thousands of possible runs, one combination of mutations and items that worked, what combinations will you get the next run?
Can you complete the game with a different combination?
Can you get to the point where you can consistently win regardless of the cards you're dealt?

The beauty and longevity of rogue likes and lites don't come in progression or narrative, but, as mentioned, in experimentation, variation, and inquisitiveness.
It's not about being told a story, but about seeing what experiences there are to be had, and how different they can be. :)


Edit:
You can equate it to playing an aRPG like Diablo or Path of Exile on Hardcore rather than Softcore. It's not about the story or getting the best of the best gear, but about what items you find in the process of it all, and how far you can get before you bite the dust. Seeing if you can succeed, not what happens when you succeed.
Each run you won't find the exact same items, and each run will be a new experience for it.

[Mojo Jojo]

yea i get what your saying. I know games are based on a formula of content within a certain space and not by the length....

but JESUS, i already knew it wasnt going to be long. I was pumped to have beaten the skull guy to see what was next, and derp. I just think it was super super super shallow and could have at least added another few world with some different ♥♥♥♥.

[Starbucaneer]

How long did that run take?

[Mojo Jojo]

about 2 hours.

[Starbucaneer]

Originally posted by aaand its GONE:

about 2 hours.

Ahh Thanks mate, I really liked the look of this game, watched splattercat on youtube playing it BUT 2 hours is too short for the full price so I will wait for a sale

[mafon2]

You can beat it in 1 hour and a half, I think.

[Rustoration]

really depends on which maps you gets. there's a bit of variation between them. it certainly isn't as long or varied as say Binding of Isaac, but for what it is i think it's interesting enough. i almost have my tome complete and only recently remembered that mutation combos are a thing so i've been experimenting with those a bit when i can.

[Mojo Jojo]

no no no dude, there is one map, a few different variations (which are not bad actually). But the point stands..........

*** This game takes a while to get the hang off, when you do and your really getting into liking it you are hit with a brick wall basically saying OK YOU BEAT IT ONCE NOW BEAT IT 30 TIMES, THERE IS LOTS OF ITEMS TO UNLOCK....

... DERP no thanks, thats not what i call longevity. Doing the same 90min runs over and over and over and over and over and over, because OOH UNLOCK ITEMS AND DIFFERENT CHARACTER ENDINGS lololol, sorry NO!. Not for that price.

a real shame, such a nice game. I really would have bought the replaying to unlock thing if the gameplay (actual game story length) have more to it. But not a measly world 3-2 no way.

[Santiak]

Seems our definition of "same" is different, no pun intended. :)

What I enjoy about games like this, is that every run is different. It's not the same 90 min run as the last one, the gameplay itself is drastically different depending on whether you have Batty, Homie and Crab, or Warhead, Firearm and Death Roe. Each potential combination plays differently, and you won't run into the exact same combination of mutations - in this case - often.

For example, just now I encountered a World modifier for the first time after 40 hours of play. Whether it had anything to do with me unlocking the 5th ending or not, I can't say, but I did get a new intro voice-over when I started a new run - without spoiling anything, to the effect of ".. it changed everything", which, if they follow even a sliver of the formula that BoI used, means new modifiers would be introduced, and they indeed seem to have been.

For me, it has very little to do with unlocking items, but experiencing the different types of runs that those items can produce, rather than run through Doom for the umpteenth time with the same exact weapons, enemies, and challenges. Or the same exact weapons and maps in CS:GO, or the same exact units and buildings as in SC2 (really, you can boil down any game to make it sound uninteresting).

In any case, I'm not arguing your opinion, it's perfectly fine with me if you don't like the game, or can't see the lure of them. But kudos for giving something new an honest try! :)

[Mojo Jojo]

Yea the reason i be mad is not because the game is bad, its because i was just getting into it when "IMO" its over. The same for Blazing Chrome and other games, the insta-finish type of a game that lasts an hour with a million unlocks i cant see how it gives it value i just cant get my head around it. The devs make these games must laugh all the way to the bank.

Im currently playing a game called Children Of Mortia.... not a game id normally play but wouldnt that be classed as one of these Rogue games?. Yet it seems to have a ton of longevity in it?. I guess just same genre, different style?.

[Starbucaneer]

Originally posted by Santiak:

Seems our definition of "same" is different, no pun intended. :)

What I enjoy about games like this, is that every run is different. It's not the same 90 min run as the last one, the gameplay itself is drastically different depending on whether you have Batty, Homie and Crab, or Warhead, Firearm and Death Roe. Each potential combination plays differently, and you won't run into the exact same combination of mutations - in this case - often.

For example, just now I encountered a World modifier for the first time after 40 hours of play. Whether it had anything to do with me unlocking the 5th ending or not, I can't say, but I did get a new intro voice-over when I started a new run - without spoiling anything, to the effect of ".. it changed everything", which, if they follow even a sliver of the formula that BoI used, means new modifiers would be introduced, and they indeed seem to have been.

For me, it has very little to do with unlocking items, but experiencing the different types of runs that those items can produce, rather than run through Doom for the umpteenth time with the same exact weapons, enemies, and challenges. Or the same exact weapons and maps in CS:GO, or the same exact units and buildings as in SC2 (really, you can boil down any game to make it sound uninteresting).

In any case, I'm not arguing your opinion, it's perfectly fine with me if you don't like the game, or can't see the lure of them. But kudos for giving something new an honest try! :)

Hmmm that makes it sound more interesting. Do the layout of the maps and types and abilities of the mobs change with these variations or just the abilities etc of the character you play as?. I get the most enjoyment from learning new gameplay mechanics and seeing new areas. I am kind of on the fence now about buying or not lol.

[Starbucaneer]

Originally posted by aaand its GONE:

Yea the reason i be mad is not because the game is bad, its because i was just getting into it when "IMO" its over. The same for Blazing Chrome and other games, the insta-finish type of a game that lasts an hour with a million unlocks i cant see how it gives it value i just cant get my head around it. The devs make these games must laugh all the way to the bank.

Im currently playing a game called Children Of Mortia.... not a game id normally play but wouldnt that be classed as one of these Rogue games?. Yet it seems to have a ton of longevity in it?. I guess just same genre, different style?.

I played the demo of C o M and really enjoyed it. The full game is on my wishlist for future purchase.

[Santiak]

Originally posted by Starbucaneer:

Originally posted by Santiak:

Seems our definition of "same" is different, no pun intended. :)

What I enjoy about games like this, is that every run is different. It's not the same 90 min run as the last one, the gameplay itself is drastically different depending on whether you have Batty, Homie and Crab, or Warhead, Firearm and Death Roe. Each potential combination plays differently, and you won't run into the exact same combination of mutations - in this case - often.

For example, just now I encountered a World modifier for the first time after 40 hours of play. Whether it had anything to do with me unlocking the 5th ending or not, I can't say, but I did get a new intro voice-over when I started a new run - without spoiling anything, to the effect of ".. it changed everything", which, if they follow even a sliver of the formula that BoI used, means new modifiers would be introduced, and they indeed seem to have been.

For me, it has very little to do with unlocking items, but experiencing the different types of runs that those items can produce, rather than run through Doom for the umpteenth time with the same exact weapons, enemies, and challenges. Or the same exact weapons and maps in CS:GO, or the same exact units and buildings as in SC2 (really, you can boil down any game to make it sound uninteresting).

In any case, I'm not arguing your opinion, it's perfectly fine with me if you don't like the game, or can't see the lure of them. But kudos for giving something new an honest try! :)

Hmmm that makes it sound more interesting. Do the layout of the maps and types and abilities of the mobs change with these variations or just the abilities etc of the character you play as?. I get the most enjoyment from learning new gameplay mechanics and seeing new areas. I am kind of on the fence now about buying or not lol.

The layouts are random, but you can see certain patterns after a while, though not obvious. There are, for example, tunnels in almost every world, and you won't be able to predict the layout. You might be able to predict that you need to go through them to get to a specific NPC, but not the direction or exit, for example. :)

The mobs don't change much overall. There are variations for each World, so in one you might get a variation that simply does physical damage, then one that does fire, and then one that leaves pools of acid behind. But I haven't encountered other variations than those in a long while.

Your abilities have 2 alternate paths to evolve down, and some abilities have interactions when you use both simultaneously ("combos"). So for example, if you have an ability that throws your head as a bomb, and one that throws your hand as a fireball, if you use both simultaneously, you'll throw your head as a fire-bomb instead. Haven't come across too many combo's, but didn't realize they were part of the game for a good while.

But if you specifically mean if abilities or mobs change down the line, from what I can gather, no.
But the maps do to some degree.
For example the modifier I mentioned in my previous post: "Acid Moon".
It turned the map entirely green, lots of acid pools everywhere, and almost every mob was changed to a specific kind that interacts with acid pools.
Another modifier, "Dark night", simply makes the map darker and - unless it's some cognitive bias on my part - increases the rate of elite mobs. :)

That being said, after 40 hours, I still have endo (passive) and exo (active) mutations (abilities) to discover. In fact, I even have a base active ability to discover. Whether I'm extremely unlucky or it's locked behind something or other, I don't know (if anyone's interested, it's the 3 spots just above the 4 "Bummed" mutations).

If you're on the fence, the only thing I can say is:
It's not as extensive as Binding of Isaac, and there aren't as many variations of enemies and maps as BoI, either. In fact, I'd say it's kind of like Gungeon with slightly more passives and synergies (since I last played before the last expansion).
Obviously I'm biased since I have 40 hours played by now, and I believe part of that is the atmosphere of the game, more than the gameplay. So unless the atmosphere is appealing to you, I'd probably wait for a sale. :)