Honestly the hero forge mini builder is TOO EXPENSIVE

[Nylinth]

Honestly the hero forge mini builder is too expensive. 8 buck a piece for not even the stl but the right to use. That price needs to come down. As a DM making the characters I'd like sounds great and it takes a load off talespire devs. But 8 dollars a pop. what if i want 10 different custom minis that's 80 bucks. That's way more then buying talespire. Sure if you need one it's not the worst but already i had 2 planned then a vampire later and a wizard. a king. you see where this is going. the hero forge update sounds good on paper but i can't even use it as a recommendation to buy the game.

Hey friend wanna buy a table top sim. OH you can also make custom minies.

that's cool.

but that cost extra.

Oh. You mean like DLC?

No. You have to pay for each mini. It's no big deal like 8 bucks a mini.

man that's like going out and buying the real thing!

See sounds dumb doesn't it. that price needs to be like 1 dollar or 2 at most. Then I'll make like 10 minis and they get there money down the road a cheaper mini means more money in there pocket and the easier to recommend talespire to other people. And to be clear i'm not afraid to spend 8 bucks. I Just won't pay 8 for one mini

[Katsu]

If you believe the current pricing is not bad, how do you justify it?

The work that went into Hero Forge, including color options, was already done anyways as part of their core business of selling 3D prints, which renders sales of digital miniatures a free bonus.

They could have chosen to let digital players access their creations in a similar way as TaleSpire did, or they could have sold "save slots" people can fill with characters they can edit again at any time, to name just two alternatives.

Instead, they're being sold like actual physical minis that are printed once and can never be changed, completely ignoring one of the primary benefits of the digital nature of the product, such as the ability to equip different clothes or weapons. Which you can do in the Hero Forge editor at any time, but then you have to buy the entire mini again at full price.
How is this not artificial scarcity?

Or, in other words, they are explicitly not selling it as a product of "today's technology" - they use today's technology to manufacture something that is then sold under yesterday's conditions.

Originally posted by Jector:

Considering that riding gear is widely considered a prerequisite for riding, yes. Yes it does. I mean, if you want to be someone dumb enough to not wear protective clothing on your ride, then sure.

You're assuming that the buyer does not already own a jacket.
You're assuming that the buyer does not intend to buy another jacket because they don't like the freebie.
You need to stop assuming so much.

Look, *some* of the Premade Packs are cool. I could totally see myself picking up one or two of the older ones. At 1 Credit per Pack, these are actually good value for monsters in particular.
But when someone has zero interest in a freebie, you can't just factor it into the price they pay for the product they actually want. Just because you may have found a use for 100% of the freebies, which would make me jealous of how many games you must have played, doesn't mean the same applies to everyone.

Originally posted by Jector:

And all of this is COMPLETELY ASIDE from the fact that BouncyRock has nothing to do with HeroForge pricing. Even if there was a real argument to be had on their pricing, this is the wrong place to be having it. You guys need to talk to HeroForge who are the guys making the motorcycle jacket, not BouncyRock who are the guys making the motorcycle.

This part is true. I think people - including me - are just venting a bit, which .. helps, as long as things don't get overboard. I'd say Hero Forge is unlikely to change their pricing regardless of where people complain, and I doubt anyone is actually blaming the developers of this software for the situation.

If anything, this thread as a whole is merely an argument for why Bouncy Rock could consider teaming up with one of the other suppliers, although that might require monetary investments. Maybe the necessary work could be funded via DLC?

Though I notice TaleSpire also has this on its own roadmap, so maybe the entire topic will eventually be outdated anyways.

[Trist]

Originally posted by TheLegendaryCommander:

See I think you are missing a important fundamental. They did all this for clout. To sell more talespire copies. You don't think they have a say in that price. I guarantee they do. And if they don't, they could. It's super easy to pull this feature and hero forge would make no further money. They put effort into something. You don't put effort in something no one will ever use. They have a much more direct ear to the hero forge guys then you or I. Letting them know this wasn't worth it does two things. Allows them to tell hero forge hey you need to lower the price my people aren't happy and the other is to let them know such endeavors may not be worth the effort and to focus elsewhere. Rather then argue with me. Let them know this wasn't worth it at the least. When i told 4 people about having to pay for ingame mini and it was $8 they said screw that noise. Before they knew it cost so much, or at all. They were hyped.

"Having" to?
You do realize that DnD is a hobby like any other right? You do realize the popularity of tabletops like DnD.... right? HeroForge doesnt lose any money, HeroForge was already a thing well before Talespire. People pay for minis from them all the time- or for their files to be printed.

DnD is a hobby and people in some form will end up paying for it and actively DO in IRL sessions. Hero Forge doesnt lose any money by the import feature. Trust me. lmao.

You spend money on hobbies, period. DnD has been a thing BEFORE AAA video games. Its always been an investment in money and time- And btching about PERSONALIZED aspects of a tabletop game that offers you tons of preset options is ironic.

[Trist]

And just so you boneheads know- for $15 a month you get 5 virtual tabeltop/STL downloads for that month from Heroforge says which is blatantly FOR TABLETOP USERS. Versus $32 for a 4 person set of minis.

You get basically 15 minis in the span of 3 months for $45.
They KNOW that people want cheaper options and offer that deal.
$3 per mini and it can basically renew as long as you're interested.

A better investment to have the DM pay $15 a month and accept donations from your players- And use the 5 imports per month on updates to their characters or on important NPC's.

[Trist]

Buying mini for $8 isnt their price aware option for one off virtual downloads. And btw all credits roll over.
If anything spend $15 for 5 minis and have that be that.

https://i.gyazo.com/399a399e66bd5a3c7305ca923c4f5b72.png

[Katsu]

Originally posted by Trist:

And just so you boneheads know- for $15 a month you get 5 virtual tabeltop/STL downloads for that month from Heroforge says which is blatantly FOR TABLETOP USERS. Versus $32 for a 4 person set of minis.

$20 a month (5 Credits). Or $51 for 3 months (15cr), or $180 for 12 months (60cr). If you want to rant against any "boneheads" here, you should at least make sure your math is correct and doesn't make you look like you're trying to hide something.
And it's either virtual tabletop OR the STL file, not both.

Aside from discouraging one-shots (e.g. personally I'm certainly not buying a digital mini for one evening of the Alien RPG), I think the bigger problem is that this sales model means you can't make any changes to your mini, whereas the digital nature of the product could easily enable it (as it clearly does on their website). So customers lose out on what could be a big/unique advantage of the virtual nature of their game.

Your character got a new weapon? Gotta buy the mini again.
Your character donned a disguise for infiltration or hiding? Buy again.
You find out HF minis look too big in TaleSpire? Buy again.
Obviously no one is going to do that.

[Averis]

Originally posted by Jector:

This is the wrong place to complain about this. TaleSpire is only set up to let you use HeroForge minis. They don't get money from HF for any of them and they have no control over HF prices. They literally put the import in because of how many people requested it.

And 8 dollars for a fully customized and painted mini is actually not that bad. If you only want a handful, it's the price of a movie or dinner. If you want a bunch, you can subscribe and bring the price down to around half that depending on your sub. If they were unpainted, I'd be with you. But being able to paint them is a huge benefit.

Regardless, HF is a separate company from BouncyRock. If you don't like the price of HF, you should tell HF about it.

Yeah but why did they do it? I bet... Kiiiiick Backs!?

[Rick]

Originally posted by Averis:

Originally posted by Jector:

This is the wrong place to complain about this. TaleSpire is only set up to let you use HeroForge minis. They don't get money from HF for any of them and they have no control over HF prices. They literally put the import in because of how many people requested it.

And 8 dollars for a fully customized and painted mini is actually not that bad. If you only want a handful, it's the price of a movie or dinner. If you want a bunch, you can subscribe and bring the price down to around half that depending on your sub. If they were unpainted, I'd be with you. But being able to paint them is a huge benefit.

Regardless, HF is a separate company from BouncyRock. If you don't like the price of HF, you should tell HF about it.

Yeah but why did they do it? I bet... Kiiiiick Backs!?

Probably the months of repetitive demands/requests for HF integration being made by many people in the community.

[gazza-911]

Originally posted by Averis:

Yeah but why did they do it? I bet... Kiiiiick Backs!?

Bouncyrock don't make any money from the HF minis.

[Trist]

Originally posted by Katsu:

Originally posted by Trist:

And just so you boneheads know- for $15 a month you get 5 virtual tabeltop/STL downloads for that month from Heroforge says which is blatantly FOR TABLETOP USERS. Versus $32 for a 4 person set of minis.

$20 a month (5 Credits). Or $51 for 3 months (15cr), or $180 for 12 months (60cr). If you want to rant against any "boneheads" here, you should at least make sure your math is correct and doesn't make you look like you're trying to hide something.
And it's either virtual tabletop OR the STL file, not both.

Aside from discouraging one-shots (e.g. personally I'm certainly not buying a digital mini for one evening of the Alien RPG), I think the bigger problem is that this sales model means you can't make any changes to your mini, whereas the digital nature of the product could easily enable it (as it clearly does on their website). So customers lose out on what could be a big/unique advantage of the virtual nature of their game.

Your character got a new weapon? Gotta buy the mini again.
Your character donned a disguise for infiltration or hiding? Buy again.
You find out HF minis look too big in TaleSpire? Buy again.
Obviously no one is going to do that.

In ANY scenario- IRL or otherwise- You'd have to settle a central neutral look representation for your mini. Literally decades of DND players have had to deal with this.

DND is still a hobby. If you want a VIDEO game with DND elements then play one, but DND is a money and time sink neither of these services- Talespire or Heroforge's main priority. DND is an imagination game and has been for decades.

$15 (And it was $15 USD, not $20) a month for a mini for full group is still a steal especially if you consider they all can pitch in.

You're complaining about having to spend money on what is still, a game that requires time and resources and money. Not justifying the prices- But putting a price on a game's feature that literally changes with the imagination is nigh impossible and from a business standpoint giving you all of the tools involved would cost more money.

[Katsu]

Originally posted by Trist:

In ANY scenario- IRL or otherwise- You'd have to settle a central neutral look representation for your mini. Literally decades of DND players have had to deal with this.

DND is still a hobby. If you want a VIDEO game with DND elements then play one, but DND is a money and time sink neither of these services- Talespire or Heroforge's main priority. DND is an imagination game and has been for decades.

$15 (And it was $15 USD, not $20) a month for a mini for full group is still a steal especially if you consider they all can pitch in.

You're complaining about having to spend money on what is still, a game that requires time and resources and money. Not justifying the prices- But putting a price on a game's feature that literally changes with the imagination is nigh impossible and from a business standpoint giving you all of the tools involved would cost more money.

Nonsense. It's a digital product, and you can change it at any time in the Hero Forge editor just like you can change your TaleSpire maps. The only difference is that for the changes in Hero Forge to carry over into your campaign you'd have to buy the product again.
It's kind of ironic that physical minis would at least allow you to repaint them at any time.

It's also kind of ironic that you complain about "video game with DND elements" on the discussion board of a virtual tabletop engine, and to top it off even one that allows its characters to use emotes and spell animations. But changing a mini's gear is where you draw the line? Or rather, in your logic, the difference between a hobby and a video game is that the former is validated via continuous expenses? You realize you're just arguing in favor of F2P microtransactions at this point, right?

I also can't wrap my head around your reasoning that "putting a price on a game's feature that literally changes with the imagination is nigh impossible" when TaleSpire does exactly that: providing a one-off purchase for an editor that allows you to churn out an unlimited number of creations you can change at any time. But please, maybe I've just misunderstood you; go ahead and explain to me the fundamental difference between a tabletop map and a tabletop mini as far as creation and necessary pricing are concerned?

And it's still $20 a month, as a visit to the Hero Forge website will confirm.

[The Obstruction]

I think it's hilarious that people are still crying about this. Yeah, I do think the whole single-purchase thing is a bit annoying, instead of simply having a digital-only subscription that gives you unlimited/a fairly decent number of changes while you pay for that subscription. I'd love something like that, and I don't even know if I'd use it with Talespire (I'm still trying to figure out if I even like this software).

But that's not Heroforge's business plan, and if folks don't, they don't need to be a customer. It's really that simple. Don't like how much chocolate for your milk costs? Don't buy it. It's not complicated.

And then to complain to a dairy farmer that the chocolate you buy to put in your milk costs too much, and they need to fix that, is the height of absurdity.

[Alpatrix]

Originally posted by Jector:

Originally posted by TheLegendaryCommander:

When i told 4 people about having to pay for ingame mini and it was $8 they said screw that noise. Before they knew it cost so much, or at all. They were hyped.

Why'd you tell them they have to pay for an in game mini? Why not use the available ones? It's not like you don't have plenty of options that you're ignoring to rant to the wrong people about an actually pretty affordable service. Because, and I can't understate this enough, 8 dollars for a customized and painted 3D mini is quite reasonable.

However. You could do one of the following: 1) Use the available minis. 2) Use one of the mods to bring in 3D assets you can find on the net. 3) Wait for the TS mini creator to come out. 4) Pool your resources, have one person get a one month subscription at HF, use the sub credits to purchase minis for everyone cheaper and get the monthly pack for free on top of that. 5) Realize that for the price of 3 coffees you can have a fully custom mini and not worry about a one off cost for a forever figure.

its 8 dollars for the STL DOWNLOAD not the miniature,

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by Trist:

Originally posted by Katsu:

$20 a month (5 Credits). Or $51 for 3 months (15cr), or $180 for 12 months (60cr). If you want to rant against any "boneheads" here, you should at least make sure your math is correct and doesn't make you look like you're trying to hide something.
And it's either virtual tabletop OR the STL file, not both.

Aside from discouraging one-shots (e.g. personally I'm certainly not buying a digital mini for one evening of the Alien RPG), I think the bigger problem is that this sales model means you can't make any changes to your mini, whereas the digital nature of the product could easily enable it (as it clearly does on their website). So customers lose out on what could be a big/unique advantage of the virtual nature of their game.

Your character got a new weapon? Gotta buy the mini again.
Your character donned a disguise for infiltration or hiding? Buy again.
You find out HF minis look too big in TaleSpire? Buy again.
Obviously no one is going to do that.

In ANY scenario- IRL or otherwise- You'd have to settle a central neutral look representation for your mini. Literally decades of DND players have had to deal with this.

DND is still a hobby. If you want a VIDEO game with DND elements then play one, but DND is a money and time sink neither of these services- Talespire or Heroforge's main priority. DND is an imagination game and has been for decades.

$15 (And it was $15 USD, not $20) a month for a mini for full group is still a steal especially if you consider they all can pitch in.

You're complaining about having to spend money on what is still, a game that requires time and resources and money. Not justifying the prices- But putting a price on a game's feature that literally changes with the imagination is nigh impossible and from a business standpoint giving you all of the tools involved would cost more money.

This is the answer. Our group uses heroforge. For $20 you get 5 minis. That's $4 a mini.

If you and your group want to make multiple minis, your best bet is ALWAYS subbing. If you want 10 mini's stay subbed for 2 months. $40 vs the $80 you'd buy individually.

Now OPS problem is that they are trying to custom design every single character in their campaign. As a GM stick to 5 ultra important characters, if any. Make them fairly ambiguous so you can use them in multiple campaigns. Use the stock creatures for the rest. Your campaign is probably going to take a year to complete. That's $20 a year in miniatures. It is NOT a big expense.

After a few years you'll have a good stable of minis.

[AToastyRoast]

Originally posted by Jector:

Originally posted by TheLegendaryCommander:

I am dissatisfied with a product and I'm letting them know.

Yeah, and talking to the wrong company about it.

Using your car analogy; you're complaining that Ford made a car that runs on ethanol but the ethanol at the Texaco costs more than you want to pay. Then you ignore the listed solutions to the problem (pool resources to get cheap ethanol as a group, make your own ethanol, wait until ford's ethanol service comes out). You're not here looking for a fix, you're here to complain that someone isn't fixing it exactly how you want it.

Yeah except now its $16 per mini like tf is inflation hitting a digital figurine.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by AToastyRoast:

Originally posted by Jector:

Yeah, and talking to the wrong company about it.

Using your car analogy; you're complaining that Ford made a car that runs on ethanol but the ethanol at the Texaco costs more than you want to pay. Then you ignore the listed solutions to the problem (pool resources to get cheap ethanol as a group, make your own ethanol, wait until ford's ethanol service comes out). You're not here looking for a fix, you're here to complain that someone isn't fixing it exactly how you want it.

Yeah except now its $16 per mini like tf is inflation hitting a digital figurine.

What? It's still $7.99 and still $20 a month for 1 month sub. Even the 5 man premade packs are still $7.99.