Anglo-Saxons under powered?

[Monkeeyo]

You are at a big disadvantage when starting with a slinger unit, the only strategy I could come up with to catch up is to rush to tech tier 2 and build a barracks and have an infantry build, but that just goes against the specializaation of the ango-saxons (bowmen). So why not have them start with 1 or 2 longbowmen? Or buff slingers against unarmored units?

[1337Cammy]

Well tbh slingers are strong enough, anglos timing is just hugely awkward and is pretty much unstable in the most important stage of the game.

The transition cost to rack + house + unit is just so high and so slow, that even low tech costs still makes it feel like they need more investment to finally make a synergizing front + backline with their unit composition.

Letting them start with bowmen is counter productive since that doesn't fix the issue of having no frontline so I don't see your argument there.
It makes them too good in safe play early while they fall even more behind with absolutely no village pressure speed.

While I still think they need something like an extra unit spot (3 instead of 2 unit cap on the townhall), I don't see any suggestion that wouldn't either ruin their early game even more or would it make straight unfair for your oponent, since Saxon clearly have a lategame Blacksmith/Abilitytree to rely on direct barrack unit fights.

[PeteSkTemplar]

It is not about Anglo-Saxons but about whom against whom you play.

Similar problem is with Slavs - shieldmen - going against Germans - cleavers - they are totally decimated T1, but if going Germans vs Vikings spearmen will kill those cleavers easily.

Player has to learn tactics (for example if I use one shieldman to "tank" cleavers while another shieldman charge from behind or at least flank I survive, in case of slings one has to be used to pin while other(s) to kill from the side, sometimes squad perish but theirs too for slings have high dmg and they are cheaper than opponent units).

If 2v2 game - one countering another should focus, if countering both (like Slavs good against both Vikings and Anglo-Saxons) another - like German player can tech up to counter those spears and slings with later tech.

Perhaps an option to give resources to teammate would be useful for that assymetrical balance but I remember how I hated in Age of Empires II how AI gave me recources and was totally without any defence and economy so I had to spent more for their defence than it was what I got:D

I seen in settings not yet avaliable to change starting resources - perhaps with more starting resources it would be much more easily to choose whether to tech up to counter starting disadvantage or if I counter enemy I produce as much units as I can but then T1 might be just skipped too often :P

Ppl too often play mostly one or few faction(s) and they immediately consider another op :P

[1337Cammy]

Originally posted by PeteSKTemplar:

It is not about Anglo-Saxons but about whom against whom you play.

Similar problem is with Slavs - shieldmen - going against Germans - cleavers - they are totally decimated T1, but if going Germans vs Vikings spearmen will kill those cleavers easily.

Player has to learn tactics (for example if I use one shieldman to "tank" cleavers while another shieldman charge from behind or at least flank I survive).

If 2v2 game - one countering another should focus, if countering both (like Slavs good against both Vikings and Anglo-Saxons) another - like German player can tech up to counter those spears and slings with later tech. Perhaps option to give resources to teammate would be useful for that assymetrical balance.

Again ppl too often play mostly one or few faction(s) and they immediately consider another op :P

That's another story.

Each faction actually has 2 different opener units to play around with.

Slavs with shield warband and mounted archers.
Germans with cleavers and bowmen.
Vikings with spears and scout.

Saxons got no security in diversity and they have no choice but either going slingers which cannot stand on their own against any unit in the game, but are still quite ok combined or as effective splitpushes, or get t2, wait a minute for iron, build a rack and wait 45 secs, build a house and wait 30 secs, wait ~20 secs for wood since you are on +95 at that point and go for a shieldmen squad waiting another 30 seconds.
So your barrack unit comes out (if you rush it and don't go for a 2nd slinger to go for the corner village) right when 3 of your oponents units (which took the 2nd village already) either are on the way to your base, or are nearly attacking middle, resulting in the 3rd freevillage for them, which is an enourmously bad timing and puts you in a defensive defensive spot right from the start.

You couldn't splitpush with the slinger meanwhile since the 3rd unit timing of every other faction is so tight either by having a 3rd unit cap in townhall for free (slavs and germans) or like vikings, have decreased building costs with increased building speed.

Saxons diversity or reaction to a certain early push unit is insanely slow, even tho they got cheaper cost in tech and iron sales in their veterancy upgrades, paired with -10iron silver armour cost and -20 wood trap costs to somehow balance it out.

That doesn't fix the issue that literally every other faction can just run completely over saxons if played correctly, in the most important gamestage in the game, like I said.
So there's definitely a point behind his complain, everyone else has a unit that can go head to into fighting, to at least defend villages by denying and making the village shoot arrows, saxon squads simply disappear half on charge and cannot play remotly agressive against units in early game at all.

Smart unit positioning in competitive play even makes their splitpush capabilities (at least how footstep mechanics work right now) to 0 and makes them to the worst starter unit in the game in my opinion, since they become dead units compared to anything else in the game.

[PeteSkTemplar]

Well that "hobilar" Viking have might be rather in Anglo-Saxon T1 roster to scout for those slingers I guess and that guerilla upgrade should be passive not just on CD to take advantage of scouting (but lowering dmg for better survival then) or pushing spearmen T2 to T1 but it would be kind of Viking starting option. Also if a sling squad somehow gets 1st lvl I reccomend speed bonus to keep distance.

[tomasoltis]

ability to fast tier from the start to increase especially metal income is also quite something, especially with lower upkeep on top.

[1337Cammy]

Originally posted by tomasoltis:

ability to fast tier from the start to increase especially metal income is also quite something, especially with lower upkeep on top.

Well you essentially have no corner village therefore and either face a 3 or 4 village saturation oponent after a short time while saxons only work on 1, which is essentially a huge ressource and time income disadvantage compared to other factions.

[PeteSkTemplar]

When an option to set starting resources will be avaliable to set higher than lowest as it is now then it wont be any problem:)

[tomasoltis]

starting res option is not a bright idea imo :P Games built round it so I dont see this as advisable.

[1337Cammy]

Thinking the same.

That's far away from beeing competitive, just to make custom rules to fix an issue for you at this time.