The growth system, its negative impact on the gameplay loop, and how to fix it.

[Mikoshi]

Dinosaur growth is probably one of the most unique things about BoB, and it's not something I'd like to see go away, but the worse parts of the system should be addressed. Combining perma death, (effectively) infinite growth potential, and tying growth to just how long you've been logged into that dinosaur, leads to pretty bad feeling gameplay.

The optimal way to play right now, is to gather resources and then hide. Or join a mega pack, and sit semi-afk next to a water source/food, for hours at a time. Conflict between people is almost universally ultra lopsided, because no one is going to even consider risking their tens of hours of playtime for a maybe. This is particularly an issue in the water, where a handful of big mosas can dominate an entire server forever, which leads to hilarious rules on some servers "You can't say people's names in global, because then they'll know they're on, and log off".

I'd argue that one of the following, or maybe some combination should really be considered:

Growth rates should be influenced more significantly by actively playing the game. Actively in the sense that you are traveling around, seeing new things, drinking from different watering holes, and basically not hiding for 90% of your growth time. AFK hiding should still give you growth, but it should be night and day difference, something that is obviously not as good as actively playing.

Time to reach max growth should be re-tuned to the 20-40 hours range, for optimal play(See above). In most instances, that will provide plenty to strive for, while also making it actually obtainable. That would be 1-2 weeks of playtime, for someone who played three hours a day, every day.

The punishment for death should be a little less absolute. I think some sort of milestone system, where your growth rates past the soft cap (currently 1.2) are bumped up with an s-curve. So growth to the soft cap is standard, maybe a touch faster, but then growth rates remain higher than normal until you start to approach your highest milestone on that species(a system like this, should probably be tied to species. So achieving a 1.5 on a velociraptor only provides a catchup for future velociraptors you make).


Another thing I'd like to see, in relation to growth, but are more flavor desire than anything else:

Let us choose different growth curves. Right now, we basically have FastestGrowth--FastGrowth--*hit_soft_cap*--glacial pace. Being able to shift when our fastest and slowest growth phases are, would be fun. IE: Choosing to spend longer as a juvenile dino, only to growth spurt later.

[Horknit]

I feel as if trials could be a good baseline for this, as they already track things like travel distance, how good the stuff you eat is, the water sources you visit, etc.

[Adoramus]

Too long, did not read.
But I guess you recommend changing the 'time' as the only thing to grind. However I preffer being chill with my herbi friends, simulator game. I would not want to turn this game into an adventure game.

[Rhoklaw]

I am trying to figure out how to suggest an idea to the MOD community. Basically instead of perma death, Dino's would enter a non playable timer based on the age of the dino. So the older the dino, the longer the timer. Of course, players could still choose to delete dinos if all their dinos are on a cool down timer. At least this would allow players to maintain growth progress on dinos they enjoy.

[Adoramus]

Originally posted by Rhoklaw:

I am trying to figure out how to suggest an idea to the MOD community. Basically instead of perma death, Dino's would enter a non playable timer based on the age of the dino. So the older the dino, the longer the timer. Of course, players could still choose to delete dinos if all their dinos are on a cool down timer. At least this would allow players to maintain growth progress on dinos they enjoy.

It think it would be better if you can ressurrect the dino based on other dinos' archivements. This would not enchourage more AFK gameplay, as it is too much already.

[Rhoklaw]

Originally posted by Dr Tomo:

Originally posted by Rhoklaw:

I am trying to figure out how to suggest an idea to the MOD community. Basically instead of perma death, Dino's would enter a non playable timer based on the age of the dino. So the older the dino, the longer the timer. Of course, players could still choose to delete dinos if all their dinos are on a cool down timer. At least this would allow players to maintain growth progress on dinos they enjoy.

It think it would be better if you can ressurrect the dino based on other dinos' archivements. This would not enchourage more AFK gameplay, as it is too much already.

Ok, but you are still forcing people to fear perma death because they don't "meet achievements" which will definitely prevent any solo players from playing this game as it's obviously easier to acquire achievements as a pack.

[Adoramus]

Originally posted by Rhoklaw:

Originally posted by Dr Tomo:

It think it would be better if you can ressurrect the dino based on other dinos' archivements. This would not enchourage more AFK gameplay, as it is too much already.

Ok, but you are still forcing people to fear perma death because they don't "meet achievements" which will definitely prevent any solo players from playing this game as it's obviously easier to acquire achievements as a pack.

There is nothing wrong with forcing dinos together as a pack. I would say, that is one of the main aspects of the game. And life on that matter.

[Horknit]

Originally posted by Dr Tomo:

There is nothing wrong with forcing dinos together as a pack. I would say, that is one of the main aspects of the game. And life on that matter.

Yes there is in my opinion, going solo is a playstyle that alot of people like to play because they want to avoid the drama of groups, explore, etc. Making it completely and utterly unviable may just make that even stronger, especially as packing/herding up is already highly encouraged due to the comfort buffs, which in turn helps growth, stam and AP regen, and healing.

This is not even talking about the extra firepower, tankiness and strategies that are gained with team mates.

[Adoramus]

Originally posted by Horknit:

Originally posted by Dr Tomo:

There is nothing wrong with forcing dinos together as a pack. I would say, that is one of the main aspects of the game. And life on that matter.

Yes there is in my opinion, going solo is a playstyle that alot of people like to play because they want to avoid the drama of groups, explore, etc. Making it completely and utterly unviable may just make that even stronger, especially as packing/herding up is already highly encouraged due to the comfort buffs, which in turn helps growth, stam and AP regen, and healing.

This is not even talking about the extra firepower, tankiness and strategies that are gained with team mates.

Can't disagree more. Sticking together is a MUST, regarding to evolution, regarding to MMORPG genre, and the whole point of this game is, to have the experiences and drama together. You will die eventualy. Your point is to make it so, it causes as much drama as possible. Same as in life, in a sense.

[Horknit]

Originally posted by Dr Tomo:

Can't disagree more. Sticking together is a MUST, regarding to evolution, regarding to MMORPG genre, and the whole point of this game is, to have the experiences and drama together. You will die eventualy. Your point is to make it so, it causes as much drama as possible. Same as in life, in a sense.

I also cannot disagree more, are you aware of how exclusive things can be, that things like clans exist and take over entire servers and practically destroy them, the amount of solitary animals that live in the real world, and the amount of people who actually do play alone and also have a relatively enjoyable time exploring around?

[Adoramus]

Originally posted by Horknit:

Originally posted by Dr Tomo:

Can't disagree more. Sticking together is a MUST, regarding to evolution, regarding to MMORPG genre, and the whole point of this game is, to have the experiences and drama together. You will die eventualy. Your point is to make it so, it causes as much drama as possible. Same as in life, in a sense.

I also cannot disagree more, are you aware of how exclusive things can be, that things like clans exist and take over entire servers and practically destroy them, the amount of solitary animals that live in the real world, and the amount of people who actually do play alone and also have a relatively enjoyable time exploring around?

Short answer: No I dont know the % for these. And neither do you. I can guess not even devs know this data.

[ARTTIE]

Couldn't agree more. Growth is the sole reason I stopped playing these dino games. They require you to slave yourself to these games just to be able to actually be useful and fight off a few things until you die by a freak accident. BoB in particular punishes solo players who just want to go out and explore instead of AFKing with a group for comfort boost.

[Adoramus]

Originally posted by frog:

Couldn't agree more. Growth is the sole reason I stopped playing these dino games. They require you to slave yourself to these games just to be able to actually be useful and fight off a few things until you die by a freak accident. BoB in particular punishes solo players who just want to go out and explore instead of AFKing with a group for comfort boost.

Growth is not a good system, that much is clear. But if you remove this, than you get ARK: or BattleRoyal dino version. So I'm not sure how to remove it.

[Mikoshi]

Originally posted by Dr Tomo:

Growth is not a good system, that much is clear. But if you remove this, than you get ARK: or BattleRoyal dino version. So I'm not sure how to remove it.

Growth in a vacuum, isn't necessarily a problem, nor does it need to be completely removed. The end result is what needs to be addressed. Right now, when you die, you lose 100% of your progress, even if that progress is enormous. Throw in limitless growth, and you get limitless loss, which feels absolutely terrible, especially if you don't have the time to no life the game.

There are countless ways you can include a growth mechanic, still have loss on dying, without being as binary as it currently is. Checkpoints to speed up future same species dinosaur growth, giving bonus growth points that accumulate off the dinosaur (and can be applied to future dinosaurs), or even revive timers with percentage loss. You solve most of the game's problems if you address it in almost any way.

They seem to be trying to address it with the ability to trade dead/sacrificed dinosaurs to revive dinosaurs you want to bring back, but that particular direction has the problem of locking up already limited dinosaur slots, with dead dinosaurs. It might also fail to change anything at all, if the "trade-in value" is not very generous.

[Adoramus]

Originally posted by Mikoshi:

Originally posted by Dr Tomo:

Growth is not a good system, that much is clear. But if you remove this, than you get ARK: or BattleRoyal dino version. So I'm not sure how to remove it.

Growth in a vacuum, isn't necessarily a problem, nor does it need to be completely removed. The end result is what needs to be addressed. Right now, when you die, you lose 100% of your progress, even if that progress is enormous. Throw in limitless growth, and you get limitless loss, which feels absolutely terrible, especially if you don't have the time to no life the game.

There are countless ways you can include a growth mechanic, still have loss on dying, without being as binary as it currently is. Checkpoints to speed up future same species dinosaur growth, giving bonus growth points that accumulate off the dinosaur (and can be applied to future dinosaurs), or even revive timers with percentage loss. You solve most of the game's problems if you address it in almost any way.

They seem to be trying to address it with the ability to trade dead/sacrificed dinosaurs to revive dinosaurs you want to bring back, but that particular direction has the problem of locking up already limited dinosaur slots, with dead dinosaurs. It might also fail to change anything at all, if the "trade-in value" is not very generous.

You are right on this. Removing it completely is too dramatic. Having to play a good few hours to bond with the dino is esential, so you don't Jackass throwing them away, but after this mentioned 'good few hours' we should be able to focus on enjoying life, not just protecting it infinitely.