The Grail's Plan (Spoilers)

[Chogathmainop]

According to the lore, The Grail forced The Thunderskin to ascend through flaying him alive (either literally or spiritually) in an attempt to strengthen her power in The Mansus over The Twins, until she sacrificed The Thunderskin to appease The Horned Axe, until The Thunderskin came back through the peacock door.

My question is as follows: How would creating another hour increase her power, and considering the subject of said ritual would be incredibly willing to turn on her, doesn't that mean that all she did was create another enemy who may be on par with her own strength?

[ṣ̷h̵ệ̵p̷.̷ ̸😈]

Oh, the flaying of Marsyas/Attis is implied to have been quite corporeal. Cybele's adherents are known for their tangible devotion.

Joining the House only brought them closer together, not farther apart. 'Seek the Cup in the birthing-bed,' the Pine-Knight is told. The Midwife at the birthing-bed, to his amazement, is the Mountain-Mother. In a fit of awe, he both gelds and flays himself. The Vigilant Storm bursts joyfully from the remains.'

Being freed from form, all that remained was the heart that always did beat relentlessly for the Great Mother. The sphere of The Malachite is whimsy, but the search for The Grail was the mission of his life.

Wouldn't you be overjoyed if you finally completed your life's work?

[Chogathmainop]

Corporeal yes, but the nature of the ritual itself as well as the consent involved is largely what I'm getting at. Considering that Phrygian is referred to as "the language The Thunderskin pleaded in at his ascension", it would imply that becoming an Hour was hardly his idea - although the context of what exactly he was pleading for is left largely to the imagination.

This is muddled further by the three possible origins of the Thunderskin. If it's Marsyas, then the Thunderskin was created as punishment for insulting the god Apollo (should Apollo be used as a stand-in for The Grail). If it's either the Pine-Knight or Attis, then the Thunderskin would be born as a potential ally of The Grail. "Against the Sisterhood of the Knot" sheds some light on this, but it doesn't detail if the Horned-Axe saw the love The Grail had for The Thunderskin (or if The Thunderskin returned The Grail's love at all), or if The Grail was jealous between The Thunderskin and The Ring-Yew, and destroyed him in an attempt to get rid of someone she saw as unfaithful while appeasing The Horned axe in the process.

[ṣ̷h̵ệ̵p̷.̷ ̸😈]

If you haven't done the Heart path for Dancer yet, I think you should. It will be very illuminating to anyone interested in the Drum Unceasing and the physical toll required to join the Storm Chorus.

It may be that Parsival was pleading, not for clemency, but for the knife. Phrygian directly connects the tale to Attis, who was quite enthusiastic in his mania; a similar state as the Pine-Knight upon physically witnessing the Mountain-Mother. Whether by his hand, or hers, her personal presence is the key constant.

'At these greater Feasts a Black Pig is always crowned as King before its Slaying. On this Occasion, its Heart was weighed in the Balance against a Knot of Feathers, and its Skin became a Cape for the Officiant. Its Flesh was left for the Crows...'

Punishment, Atonement, or Sacrifice. More than one thing can be true, and the Sisterhood was indeed a conjunction of interests; both mundane (War of Roads), and metaphysical. The Horned-Axe wanted vengeance for her kin, and as the Double-Edged, also demands separation. Yet, the Musician was heavily attached to two Hours. So, he was cleaved of everything but his Heart, which had spent a lifetime yearning for The Grail. In this way, the infidelity becomes the necessary catalyst for their reconciliation eternal in the House.

As always, the Mountain-Mother's children are reborn in Blood.

[Chogathmainop]

I have been meaning to pick up the DLC, haven't gotten around to it quite yet, but I think if given the choice I'd probably play Exile first.

I'm just hoping that The Book of Hours fills in more of the blanks about the lore of the hours, filling in more of the blanks.

On the subject of the Horned-Axe, considering her violent yet protective nature (holding back the crowned growth, but still calling for blood for the death of the other Gods-Of-Stone), don't you think that Heart or Edge would be fitting aspects as well?

[ṣ̷h̵ệ̵p̷.̷ ̸😈]

Exile is the DLC I prefer. A very different experience, and good challenge. Pack light.

As one of the Winter-Knock hours, The Horned Axe serves as the End (Winter) of all Thresholds (Knock). Disparity over Ambiguity. In the Tarot she is Death; not mortal death, but: change, endings, and the transition from one state to the next. The Crowned Growth is repelled by Her because something from Nowhere doesn't belong Here. Edge is not merely violence, but struggle. Equal parts the Will for, and the Method of, combat: {the striving: the skill}, {the focus: the fury}.

The Heart Relentless is the protector of the World because only the Heart can match the constancy of the now snipPED Wheel.

You're not wrong in seeing a (dis)connection between The Horned Axe and Edge though, I'll let you find out the specifics on that one yourself.

[Chogathmainop]

Wild guess, would I find more details on that in the Priest storyline?

On a side note, I brought up Heart as one of the aspects because I notice that with Heart and Winter there is a recurring theme of persistence with (as far as I can tell) the main difference being energy. Heart will destroy the opposition simply because it never stops, whereas winter has no problem sitting back and waiting for you to die.

[ṣ̷h̵ệ̵p̷.̷ ̸😈]

Originally posted by Chogathmainop:

Wild guess, would I find more details on that in the Priest storyline?

Exile, but with Priest you will come to understand why Knock is the principle above all else.

Winter is often persistence in the form of stoic inevitability or entropy/decay. In energy as the implacable persistence of heat-death. But as Blizzard or as Frostbite, Winter will not wait, and has a terrible bite; The Wolf-Divided as Winter/Edge.

Heart may not necessarily destroy rather than ward against an ever-multiplying enemy. The first and, eventually, last line of defense. In many cultures, including several Grecian, Native-American, and African ones, dances done for long periods have been utilized to entreat the gods or ward off evil. Marsyas' skin was used to fashion a Drum, and the Storm Chorus never ceases dancing to it's beat so that the world is not overcome.

[Chogathmainop]

What's your take on The Lionsmith having the heart aspect? If that's the case, it would make more sense that The Lionsmith would have the winter aspect and the Colonel (being a protector) would have the heart aspect.

[ṣ̷h̵ệ̵p̷.̷ ̸😈]

The Lionsmith is a protector as well. "Moth and Winter are closest to them, and so understand their weaknesses, but both have their own perils. The Lionsmith crushes them, but that's not recommended for mortals.". His Heart aspect is the vigor of youth. All (confirmed) Heart hours seem to have a role as protectors, but not all protectors are Heart hours.

From the Worms in the World obstacle:
"Here is a place where the world's skin yellowed with fever. Lantern or Moth might protect us. Nothing else will."

When protection fails and infection sets in, the Scarred Captain's connection to the higher rooms of the house is essential. Winter can represent destruction, and is also an aspect associated with Nowhere. Unlike the Golden General who fights with his fury (Forge) and strength (Heart), The Colonel is armed with knowledge (Lantern), and experience (Winter). The two may be more complementary than they seem. Lots more on their roles/interactions in Exile too.

Just my interpretations, but fun to think about. It's suggested that Aspects have changed through the ages as well, so hopefully Book of Hours will expand on that as the, "Secret Histories Ascension".

[Chogathmainop]

Which raises the question on if there is a limit to how strong the Lionsmith can become, or if there is something about the worms (given their nature) that can somehow overcome him. I bring this up, because if the Lionsmith grows stronger every time he kills something, and he is on record as killing worms, one wonders why he doesn't treat the Worm Museum as a Planet Fitness.

I suppose that goes back to the other thread we're on about how much of this is metaphor. While he was human, the Colonel was blinded and maimed so as to better resist the seven-coils, but if that were to continue with him as an Hour, the end result would be akin to an infinitely high post: impossible to overcome, but easy enough to get around.

That being said, I am crossing my fingers that The Book of Hours goes more into detail on the ins and outs of the various aspects and hours. I'm willing to wager that while we're aware of the Crowned Growth and the Worms, there could be threats that we're unaware of, or threats that come from the as-of-now known unknown hours such as the Applebright. I'd bring up the Mare-In-The-Tree, but the only threat she is is to the Ring-Yew's bodice. HEYO!

[Chogathmainop]

Although it occurs to me, what if someone had both heart and knock? What kind of hour do you think that would make?

[vindicar]

Originally posted by Chogathmainop:

Although it occurs to me, what if someone had both heart and knock? What kind of hour do you think that would make?

Either an unrelenting storm that can be evaded, but not denied, or something absolutely insidious, likely connected with life itself - as it always finds a way.

[Chogathmainop]

Originally posted by vindicar:

Originally posted by Chogathmainop:

Although it occurs to me, what if someone had both heart and knock? What kind of hour do you think that would make?

Either an unrelenting storm that can be evaded, but not denied, or something absolutely insidious, likely connected with life itself - as it always finds a way.

So in contrast to the Horned Axe who would stand behind with a door with a gun in case anything passes, Heart + Knock would break down the door and handle the threat directly?