How do I deal with evidence?

[K1ttenface]

I was about 4 hours into a game when a hunter had damning evidence against me so I murdered them and waited for the evidence to go away. When it only had about 100 seconds left another hunter turned up, immediately made a case against me using the evidence and the noteriety from his body and it was game over.

What else could I have done in that situation? Is there something i could have done about the evidence?

[Maina]

Making a new Hunter requires Notoriety or Mystique on the board, I believe, so you should lay low until it's gone. Unfortunately, murdering the previous Hunter likely created some more Notoriety. There is a type of cultist that specializes in removing these two cards from play, though.

You can talk to Hunters right before the Season of Suspicion (check the Time Passes verb to see what Season is next) to prevent them from ever starting it in the first place. Keep them from showing up to work, basically. It does tend to generate bad cards, though.

But to answer the core question: Followers, Summons, and Hirelings with Moth can destroy evidence. The odds aren't the best even with 10 Moth, but it's probably the best way to deal with Hunters; just get rid of the evidence every time they make it.

[K1ttenface]

Originally posted by Maina:

Making a new Hunter requires Notoriety or Mystique on the board, I believe, so you should lay low until it's gone. Unfortunately, murdering the previous Hunter likely created some more Notoriety. There is a type of cultist that specializes in removing these two cards from play, though.

You can talk to Hunters right before the Season of Suspicion (check the Time Passes verb to see what Season is next) to prevent them from ever starting it in the first place. Keep them from showing up to work, basically. It does tend to generate bad cards, though.

But to answer the core question: Followers, Summons, and Hirelings with Moth can destroy evidence. The odds aren't the best even with 10 Moth, but it's probably the best way to deal with Hunters; just get rid of the evidence every time they make it.

Thanks, didn't realise that the time passing card gave you any info. That should be useful.

[Pirate Santa]

Originally posted by K1ttenface:

Originally posted by Maina:

Making a new Hunter requires Notoriety or Mystique on the board, I believe, so you should lay low until it's gone. Unfortunately, murdering the previous Hunter likely created some more Notoriety. There is a type of cultist that specializes in removing these two cards from play, though.

You can talk to Hunters right before the Season of Suspicion (check the Time Passes verb to see what Season is next) to prevent them from ever starting it in the first place. Keep them from showing up to work, basically. It does tend to generate bad cards, though.

But to answer the core question: Followers, Summons, and Hirelings with Moth can destroy evidence. The odds aren't the best even with 10 Moth, but it's probably the best way to deal with Hunters; just get rid of the evidence every time they make it.

Thanks, didn't realise that the time passing card gave you any info. That should be useful.

I just realized that myself. Boy it makes planning so much easier to know what's coming at you. I'm on my second character too (hey, a fellow Humble Bundle enthusiast?) and my first character went insane from... wait for it... going to bed too early. I had a single dread on the board, and decided I wanted to deal with it, just in case it got worse, so I used health to go to bed early hoping for contentment. A few failed sleeps later I had a handful of dread and went insane.

Anyway, my tips for avoiding the law:
1) if you can keep the notoriety off the board when the season of suspicion is about to come up then he won't find clues. You can paint with notoriety (I don't know how adding your corpse smell to the painting makes it go away temporarily, but it does. It would make more sense if you could add it to your other more mundane job as kinda an alibi, but whatever.) So add the notoriety to your painting but make sure to add your mystique as well otherwise the detective will still be sniffing around when your corpse fueled painting is done! And also when you paint with notoriety you will generate more mystique so if you have too much of those you can't hide it.
2) when he has evidence you can just wait it out. It can take a while, and it means avoiding any thing that might generate more suspicion. Go to your job, go to bed early, maybe read a little uncomplicated literature to study for the next intelligence exam, and pretty soon he'll come to the conclusion that you had nothing to do with the burglary and the evidence will expire.

talking to him to keep him from showing up to work is an interesting idea though. I tried bribing him once and just got more notoriety, but knowing that you can time it right... that's helpful. That might save the day if you have evidence against you and lots of notoriety on the board.

[Pirate Santa]

Originally posted by Maina:

Making a new Hunter requires Notoriety or Mystique on the board, I believe, so you should lay low until it's gone. Unfortunately, murdering the previous Hunter likely created some more Notoriety. There is a type of cultist that specializes in removing these two cards from play, though.

You can talk to Hunters right before the Season of Suspicion (check the Time Passes verb to see what Season is next) to prevent them from ever starting it in the first place. Keep them from showing up to work, basically. It does tend to generate bad cards, though.

But to answer the core question: Followers, Summons, and Hirelings with Moth can destroy evidence. The odds aren't the best even with 10 Moth, but it's probably the best way to deal with Hunters; just get rid of the evidence every time they make it.

I gave this a try, I talked to the hunter right before his season. Since the season couldn't grab a hunter it went to the 'attracting attention' phase. The thought of having 2 hunters distraught me so I hid my notoriety and mystique in a painting as usual. (building a lot more mystique)

But ... does your suggestion keep a new hunter from spawning? It doesn't seem like it would prevent a spawn, which would make your suggestion less than helpful, but if it did prevent a new hunter from showing it would make your suggestion broken powerful because notoriety and mystique would never matter again so long as you kept your talk free when the season came.

[Derasght]

No, it doesn't prevent spawning of the Hunters, so you can easily get multiple people on your tail at the same time...

[Maina]

It does produce a new Hunter if there is a Reputation card for it to take. That, along with the fact that talking to Hunters can spawn bad cards does make it a stop-gap measure rather than a solution. It's just to give you more time to handle the problem. It doesn't solve the problem. It's still helpful; it's saved me the game a few times. After all, attempting to kill the hunter or destroy evidence when Season of Suspicion is on the way won't stop the Season from pulling the cards right out of the verb. If you talk to the Hunter instead, the Season can't take the card.

Though it's been a long time since I've had to kill a Hunter. You might be able to talk to the Hunter about their murderer to kill them, you'll still be instantly creating a new Hunter in the same fashion.

As I said before, destroying the evidence is the best solution. Sometimes, though, it's too late for that and you just need to stall. Especially if they already made Damning Evidence and don't need any Reputation cards to end you. If there is Damning Evidence on the board and no Reputation cards on the board, talking to the Hunter will save you without creating a new Hunter.

[Pirate Santa]

Originally posted by Maina:

It does produce a new Hunter if there is a Reputation card for it to take. That, along with the fact that talking to Hunters can spawn bad cards does make it a stop-gap measure rather than a solution. It's just to give you more time to handle the problem. It doesn't solve the problem. It's still helpful; it's saved me the game a few times. After all, attempting to kill the hunter or destroy evidence when Season of Suspicion is on the way won't stop the Season from pulling the cards right out of the verb. If you talk to the Hunter instead, the Season can't take the card.

Though it's been a long time since I've had to kill a Hunter. You might be able to talk to the Hunter about their murderer to kill them, you'll still be instantly creating a new Hunter in the same fashion.

As I said before, destroying the evidence is the best solution. Sometimes, though, it's too late for that and you just need to stall. Especially if they already made Damning Evidence and don't need any Reputation cards to end you. If there is Damning Evidence on the board and no Reputation cards on the board, talking to the Hunter will save you without creating a new Hunter.

I've never gotten to that point. I assumed that damning evidence did need notoriety to upgrade into game over... I have never let notoriety and evidence fester on the board at the same time, nor had multiple notoriety pulled by a hunter (does 2 notoriety = damning evidence? or 2 tentative evidence?)

so if you have tentative evidence on the board and notoriety then you'll get damning evidence when the watchman considers the evidence? And then next time, even with no reputation, the damning evidence will be enough to condemn you? The detectives are scarier than I thought. Where does a favor from authority fit in?

[Maina]

Things get a bit spoiler-y from here on out. Regarding mechanics, anyway. Consider this a blanket warning for this post, since adding spoiler tags is a pain in Steam.

Looking at things, there's only a 70% chance to create a new Hunter if the Season can't find one. So it doesn't happen every time. I thought I remembered that being the case, but I wanted to be sure.

As for Damning Evidence, there is a 30% chance you will go to trial once the Season grabs it. If you don't go to trial, the game checks for followers or rivals to go to trial in your place. If it can't find either, you go to trial no matter what. Whoever goes to trial has a 70% chance of going to jail without a Favor. With a favor, they have a 30% chance to go to jail. You can't rescue anyone from jail, nor can you escape. It's a game over for you.

Hunters will not pull two Reputation cards at once. If they pull Mystique, they will keep looking for another Reputation card for another cycle, and so they can take infinite Mystique if it's available. Once they grab a Notoriety (or a Corpse), they stop looking for Reputation and start going for evidence.

I mentioned earlier that there is a type of Cultist that can handle Notoriety and Mystique. I didn't name the kind for want of avoiding too many spoilers, but that's gone out the window by this point. Heart followers can eat Reputation cards. It takes forever, but it's also the only Cult work that never wounds on a failure, to my knowledge. They pull the cards like Hunters do, so it can be kind of futile if you have a lot of Mystique. They don't play quite so well with people who use Painting as their main form of income. On the positive side, that means Hunters can't take cards that they're working on, since they're Greedy like Hunters are and won't let it go. They can be good for making sure Evidence is never formed to begin with.

[Pirate Santa]

Originally posted by Maina:

Things get a bit spoiler-y from here on out. Regarding mechanics, anyway. Consider this a blanket warning for this post, since adding spoiler tags is a pain in Steam.

Looking at things, there's only a 70% chance to create a new Hunter if the Season can't find one. So it doesn't happen every time. I thought I remembered that being the case, but I wanted to be sure.

As for Damning Evidence, there is a 30% chance you will go to trial once the Season grabs it. If you don't go to trial, the game checks for followers or rivals to go to trial in your place. If it can't find either, you go to trial no matter what. Whoever goes to trial has a 70% chance of going to jail without a Favor. With a favor, they have a 30% chance to go to jail. You can't rescue anyone from jail, nor can you escape. It's a game over for you.

Hunters will not pull two Reputation cards at once. If they pull Mystique, they will keep looking for another Reputation card for another cycle, and so they can take infinite Mystique if it's available. Once they grab a Notoriety (or a Corpse), they stop looking for Reputation and start going for evidence.

I mentioned earlier that there is a type of Cultist that can handle Notoriety and Mystique. I didn't name the kind for want of avoiding too many spoilers, but that's gone out the window by this point. Heart followers can eat Reputation cards. It takes forever, but it's also the only Cult work that never wounds on a failure, to my knowledge. They pull the cards like Hunters do, so it can be kind of futile if you have a lot of Mystique. They don't play quite so well with people who use Painting as their main form of income. On the positive side, that means Hunters can't take cards that they're working on, since they're Greedy like Hunters are and won't let it go. They can be good for making sure Evidence is never formed to begin with.

Oh really? I thought a heart's cultist work was to seduce a stranger. I tried that once already, which I thought might get me a hanger on I could make into a pawn, but no, got me my second prisoner which soon became my second corpse. Gah! What am I to do with all these prisoners anyway? My first was when I shoved my swindler into my cupboard. I figured I could 'save her for later' or something.... now that I think of it, I might have been using a grail lady. That sounds like their move.

I'm sure I'll figure out some use for prisoners later.

I guess I've never had multiple notoriety on the board at the time or just didn't notice that the detective didn't use both.

The description says it might sometimes fail to make evidence, but I've never had that happen. I guess the weary detective's 'meticulous' score must be secret from me.

[Maina]

Grail is Seducing strangers for prisoners. Heart is charming important people to sweep Reputation cards under the rug.

Prisoners are very useful in the late game, yes. Mostly useless earlier on.

Again, Detectives will stop looking after finding one Notoriety. Multiple notoriety doesn't make a difference (unless another Season of Suspicion hits before the second decays). It's Mystique that they can use multiple of.

There is only a 70% chance to create or upgrade Evidence after finding Notoriety, but RNG is RNG. I've seen it fail (it just spits the Notoriety back onto the board), but you can't rely on it by any means.

[Derasght]

I just wanted to say that I had a few weird situations, where instead of upgrading Tentative Evidence into Damning, Hunter just created a second copy of Tentative. He grabbed Notoriety, grabbed the Evidence and then made a copy...
Well, can't blame him for that, it is useful to have a spare in case of the sudden Moth visits...

Also, if there is a Damning Evidence on the table, I would suggest to spam the White Door and constantly visit the Lodge, until you get the Favour, it may save you or your follower, if everything else fails....

[falloutttt]

You can quite easily destroy the evidence with one of your "Followers" with Moth at level 5 and above. When talking to them, they will tell you what are the chances of success.

One thing tho, the evidence can/will be taken(to court or study) by the detective sometime while you're trying to destroy them. Therefor you'll need to try it again.

Don't forget, you are a Criminal. Think like one!!!! :D

[falloutttt]

I have killed many detectives, destroyed lots of evidence. It all can be done.

You can also look to hire "temporary enforcers" to kill a detective or to destroy evidence. In case you don't want to use your Followers.

Make sure you read what they have to say about the job before you send them.

[what am i doing]

Summon Raw Prophets. Easy way to make them is get STUMM! from Oriflamme's for the Sunset Rite, a Knock follower, level Three grail lore or better, and a tiny Moth influence like Restlessness, of which you should generally have a decent amount kicking around.

Send your Raw Prophet to eat the evidence (Talk to it with the Evidence as the subject); it will usually succeed and if not you just summon another. It doesn't hurt to use all your Restlessness this way just to have a Prophet kicking around most of the time in case you need it at any given moment. Plus, no decay into Dread.

[JungleJollies[]]

Originally posted by Derasght:

I just wanted to say that I had a few weird situations, where instead of upgrading Tentative Evidence into Damning, Hunter just created a second copy of Tentative.

I've triggered that myself. After the hunter grabs the notoriety and looks for evidence, you can grab and hold evidence that is on the table, until the search dies down. This will prevent evidence from being upgraded, but it will generate evidence. In the same way, if a detective is somehow suspended during the season of the hunter and notoriety is on the board, it will generate a second detective.