(Apostle) New game+ bad design case.

[Milk4Khorneflakes]

The issue here that I have a choice to interfere with some of Adversary hostile actions against my cult.

What seems wrong to me is that when you do interfere and suceed, He gets a permanent stat growth, which seems much worse than his harmful action to begin with (steal some money). Knowing that, why would you ever invest resourses into making him stronger?

P.s. Loving the game so far

[vindicar]

The explanation is that your adversary starts taking you more seriously and puts more effort into squashing you, but I agree - it seems very counter-intuitive.

[Mahtijanis]

Making them stronger eventually makes them come after you directly at which point you can defeat them permanently.

[kikoafu4]

Originally posted by Mahtijanis:

Making them stronger eventually makes them come after you directly at which point you can defeat them permanently.

TBH I m not sure its worth it since even if you get super lucky it will cost you at least 3 disciples to defeat, or you can like super plan ahead and use hirelings maybe?

[cradoi10]

So...they've added some kinda new game+ boss type thing....which gets stronger every time you beat it, and by the sound of the OP, the player doesn't get anything? Breathing room, a special item, some coins or them cards that let you level up your character? Am I getting this right?

I'm trying to figure out whether I should get this game finally, but it looks like the cycle is add content, create new mechanical issues, and don't do anything to fix the late game card excesses.

At least by reading these forums...that's what it's looking like. I've seen enough to know I'll like the game, but I'm crazy concerned about spending money on something that seems like it's got a great early game, and a terribly thought out or executed late game...I can't tell

[Milk4Khorneflakes]

Originally posted by cradoi10:

So...they've added some kinda new game+ boss type thing....which gets stronger every time you beat it, and by the sound of the OP, the player doesn't get anything? Breathing room, a special item, some coins or them cards that let you level up your character? Am I getting this right?

I'm trying to figure out whether I should get this game finally, but it looks like the cycle is add content, create new mechanical issues, and don't do anything to fix the late game card excesses.

At least by reading these forums...that's what it's looking like. I've seen enough to know I'll like the game, but I'm crazy concerned about spending money on something that seems like it's got a great early game, and a terribly thought out or executed late game...I can't tell

I very much enjoyed new game plus apart from this little thing. You can simply not send your follower in this instance.

Originally posted by vindicar:

The explanation is that your adversary starts taking you more seriously and puts more effort into squashing you, but I agree - it seems very counter-intuitive.

This is a game design oversight. You are given a choice to spend resourses (send in and risk a cult member), and if you do spend it, you are worse off than doing nothing in a best case scenario.

[cradoi10]

Thanks a bunch, I got a more doom and gloom impression from your first post, the dangers of foruming on forums for games you don't own lol. This whole mechanic sounded like THE entire point of new game+...which isn't the case apparently.

Good clarification.

[Mahtijanis]

Originally posted by kikoafu4:

TBH I m not sure its worth it since even if you get super lucky it will cost you at least 3 disciples to defeat, or you can like super plan ahead and use hirelings maybe?

Winter, edge and forge cultists are the only ones who can take on a Long and you really don't need any of those around. Their cult businesses are unnecessary (grail produces prisoners and eventually corpses like edge and winter, and knock does the same thing as forge) and on expeditions they can be replaced by summons or other cultists. Pretty much the only thing you might need one for is mirror repair but that can also be done by the forge pawn.

[Unguided]

Originally posted by Mahtijanis:

Originally posted by kikoafu4:

TBH I m not sure its worth it since even if you get super lucky it will cost you at least 3 disciples to defeat, or you can like super plan ahead and use hirelings maybe?

Winter, edge and forge cultists are the only ones who can take on a Long and you really don't need any of those around. Their cult businesses are unnecessary (grail produces prisoners and eventually corpses like edge and winter, and knock does the same thing as forge) and on expeditions they can be replaced by summons or other cultists. Pretty much the only thing you might need one for is mirror repair but that can also be done by the forge pawn.

Forge is good for repairing the Lantern tools but otherwise yeah.

[Stiven]

You can kill the guy by sending 3 level 5 edge/winter/forge followers at him. They will die but who cares. I suspect you can throw hired dudes at him, too. Honestly Long pressure at your cult is turn out to be much much bigger problem than the Long "boss" itself.

[Milk4Khorneflakes]

Originally posted by Stiven:

You can kill the guy by sending 3 level 5 edge/winter/forge followers at him. They will die but who cares. I suspect you can throw hired dudes at him, too. Honestly Long pressure at your cult is turn out to be much much bigger problem than the Long "boss" itself.

You can throw summons. I believe, spying minions throw their edge aspect into the pile when determinig Long struggle outcome.

[Derasght]

If I recall, it's specifically stated in the Long verb, that summons will not work against him...