Dancer DLC?

[nephilimnexus]

I like this game, I really do, but c'mon... half the code for dancer stuff is already in the base game. It was just left unfinished. This doesn't sound like an add-on so much as an unlock. You can't be that desperate for cash. You're better than this, Weatherfactory. Just finish what you started and then give us some DLC with some meat on it, please. I'd happily buy that, instead.

I don't want to sound negative. Like I said, I like this game and I like the company. I'm just a tad disappointed is all. I'd rather see the whole game finished (y'know, with all the ascention paths finished and not just three of them?) before we start rolling the DLC train out - because that's how you get DLC worth buying. DLC that just finishes the missing gaps in the base game is just, I dunno, unethical in my eyes. So please reconsider this, Weatherfactory. You've got a good reputation. Please don't ruin it like that. Thanks!

[AK]

>half the code for dancer stuff is already in the base game. It was just left unfinished.

This isn't true at all. Can I ask you to explain why you think it is? It sounds like a misunderstanding.

[eva02soul]

I mean, there is framework code to make patching in the roadmap legacies easier for later, but that's it I think.

[nephilimnexus]

{elements:[
		     {
        id: "gloverandgloverjuniorjob",
            label: "Junior Position at Glover & Glover",
            aspects:{job:1},
            description: "My intellect should be put to better use! But the pay is better than labourer's work. [If you don't attend this job regularly, you might suffer a demotion.]",
			xtriggers: {careeradvancement:gloverandglover_difficultbossa_job,employment:gloverandgloverjuniorjob},
        },
				     {
        id: "gloverandgloverjuniorjob_nodifficultbossa",
            label: "Junior Position at Glover & Glover",
            aspects:{job:1},
            description: "My intellect should be put to better use! But the pay is better than labourer's work. [If you don't attend this job regularly, you might suffer a demotion.]",
			xtriggers: {careeradvancement:gloverandgloverjob,employment:gloverandgloverjuniorjob_nodifficultbossa},
        },
		
		
								{
		        id: "gloverandglover_difficultbossa_job",
            label: "A Position at Glover and Glover",
			
            aspects:
            {annoyance:1,job:1},
            description: "A position in Records under Mr Alden. I earn a little more; I stay a little later. Mr Alden always watches me closely. [If you don't attend this job regularly, you might suffer a demotion.]",
xtriggers: {endannoyance:gloverandglover_difficultbossa_gone_job,careeradvancement:gloverandgloverseniorjob,employment:gloverandglover_difficultbossa_job},
        },
						     {
        id: "gloverandglover_difficultbossa_gone_job",
            label: "Position at Glover & Glover",
            aspects:{job:1},
            description: "The man called Alden is gone. I may find matters easier when I return to work.",
			comments:"interim job that immediately changes to standard one."
        },
				     {
        id: "gloverandgloverjob",
            label: "Position at Glover & Glover",
            aspects:{job:1},
			slots: [{id:"Diligence",
			actionId:"work",
					required: {reason: 1},
					description: "Extra effort. It might help, if I'm very lucky."
					}],
            description: "I earn a little more; I stay a little later. Envy glints in the eye of the junior clerk who occupies my old desk. [If you don't attend this job regularly, you might suffer a demotion.]",
			xtriggers: {careeradvancement:gloverandgloverseniorjob,employment:gloverandgloverjob},
        },
						     {
        id: "gloverandgloverjob_youngerglovergone",
            label: "Position at Glover & Glover",
            aspects:{job:1},
			slots: [{id:"Diligence",
			actionId:"work",
					required: {reason: 1},
					description: "Extra effort. It might help, if I'm very lucky."
					}],
            description: "I earn a little more; I stay a little later. Envy glints in the eye of the junior clerk who occupies my old desk. [If you don't attend this job regularly, you might suffer a demotion.]",
			xtriggers: {careeradvancement:gloverandgloverseniorjob_youngerglovergone,employment:gloverandgloverjob_youngerglovergone},
        },
		{
        id: "gloverandgloverseniorjob",
            label: "Senior Position at Glover & Glover",
            aspects:{annoyance:1,job:1},
			slots: [
			{id:"Devotion",
			required: {reason: 1},
			actionId:"work",
					description: "My position is demanding. I must concentrate my mind."
				}],
            description: "I suppose, theoretically, I could rise higher, if someone died. [If you don't attend this job regularly, you might suffer a demotion.]",
			xtriggers: {endannoyance:gloverandgloverseniorjob_youngerglovergone,employment:gloverandgloverseniorjob},
        },
				{
        id: "gloverandgloverseniorjob_youngerglovergone",
            label: "Senior Position at Glover & Glover",
			aspects:{job:1},
			slots: [
			{id:"Devotion",
			required: {reason: 1},
			actionId:"work",
					description: "My position is demanding. I must concentrate my mind."
				}],
            description: "With the younger Glover gone, I might rise even higher. [If you don't attend this job regularly, you might suffer a demotion.]",
			xtriggers: {careeradvancement:gloverandglovertopjob,employment:gloverandgloverseniorjob_youngerglovergone},
        },
		{
        id: "gloverandglovertopjob",
		aspects:{job:1},
            label: "Board Seat at Glover & Glover",
            description: "The younger Glover's disappearance left a board seat empty. I now occupy it. [If you don't attend this job regularly, you might suffer a demotion.]",
			xtriggers:{employment:gloverandglovertopjob}
        },
				{
        id: "gloverandglovertopjob_tainted",
		aspects:{job:1},
            label: "Board Seat at Glover & Glover",
            description: "Rumours of my esoteric interests have reached the ears of the elder Glover. This has left my position uncertain. [If you don't attend this job regularly, you might suffer a demotion.]",
			xtriggers:{employment:gloverandglovertopjob_tainted}
        },
{
        id: "gloverandgloverjuniorjob_demotion",
		aspects:{job:1,demotion:1},
            label: "A Difficulty at Work: Demotion to a Junior Position",
			slots:[{id:"passion",label:"Persuasion",required:{passion:1},actionId:"work"}],
            description: "My absence from the office has been noted. I've been demoted, and I'll need to argue persuasively to keep my job.",
			xtriggers:{plead:gloverandgloverjuniorjob}
        },
						{
        id: "gloverandgloverjuniorjob_nodifficultbossa_demotion",
		aspects:{job:1,demotion:1},
            label: "A Difficulty at Work: Demotion to a Junior Position",
			slots:[{id:"passion",label:"Persuasion",required:{passion:1},actionId:"work"}],
            description: "My absence from the office has been noted. I've been demoted, and I'll need to argue persuasively to keep my job.",
			xtriggers:{plead:gloverandgloverjuniorjob_nodifficultbossa}
        },
						{
        id: "gloverandgloverjob_demotion",
		aspects:{job:1,demotion:1},
            label: "A Difficulty at Work: Demotion",
			slots:[{id:"passion",label:"Persuasion",required:{passion:1},actionId:"work"}],
            description: "My absence from the office has been noted. I've been demoted, and I'll need to argue persuasively to keep my job.",
			xtriggers:{plead:gloverandgloverjob}
        },
								{
        id: "gloverandgloverjob_youngerglovergone_demotion",
		aspects:{job:1,demotion:1},
            label: "A Difficulty at Work: Demotion",
			slots:[{id:"passion",label:"Persuasion",required:{passion:1},actionId:"work"}],
            description: "My absence from the office has been noted. I've been demoted, and I'll need to argue persuasively to keep my job.",
			xtriggers:{plead:gloverandgloverjob_youngerglovergone}
        },
								{
        id: "gloverandglovertopjob_tainted_demotion",
		aspects:{job:1,demotion:1},
            label: "A Difficulty at Work: A Risk of Demotion",
			slots:[{id:"passion",label:"Persuasion",required:{passion:1},actionId:"work"}],
            description: "Considerable latitude is allowed to someone in my position, but my absence has been noted. I will have to charm the elder Glover.",
			xtriggers:{plead:gloverandglovertopjob_tainted}
        },
		
			{id: "institutephysicianjob",
			aspects:{job:1},
	description: "Long hours; but good pay.",
	label: "A Position at the Institute"
},

			{id: "investmentsjobc",
			aspects:{job:1},
	label: "A Generous Private Income",
	description: "I am well provided for.",
	aspects: {benign:1},
		xtriggers: {decline: investmentsjobb}
	
},
			{id: "investmentsjobb",
	label: "A Substantial Private Income",
		description: "Enough of an income to live in comfort.",
	aspects: {benign:1},
	xtriggers: {decline: investmentsjoba}
	
},
			{id: "investmentsjoba",
			aspects:{job:1},
	label: "A Modest Private Income",
	description: "My investments provide more than enough to live on.", 
	aspects: {benign:1},
	xtriggers: {decline: jumble}
	
},


		{id: "mediumjob",
		aspects:{job:1},
	label: "A Reputation as a Medium",
	description: ""
	
},

		{id: "auctioneerjob",
		aspects:{job:1},
	label: "A Position at Oriflamme's Auction House",
	description: ""
	
},

		{id: "dancerjob",
		aspects:{job:1},
	label: "Dancing at the Ecdysis Club",
	description: ""
},
	
		{id: "priestjob",
		aspects:{job:1},
	label: "Priestly Stipend",
	description: ""
	
},





]};

Dancer, priest, auctioneer, investments... all left started but unfinished. Yet even the finished code for Glover & Glover only fills one page.

One.

Page.

And that whole thing up there takes up all of nine kilobytes.

Is that what this DLC is going to be? 9kb of code and the artwork for a single card? Because that's what it's sounding like to me.

At the very least you should be finishing all the careers. If we were talking about finishing all five incomplete job types then sure, we could be in (really cheap) DLC territory, fine.

[AK]

So first of all, this is the sum total of the dancer code currently in the game :)

---

{id: "dancerjob",
aspects:{job:1},
label: "Dancing at the Ecdysis Club",
description: ""
},

---

As eva02soul says, it's a little bit of framework placeholder stuff to make it easier to patch it in.

Secondly, what I'm selling is my writing, and that's never going to be very many kilobytes. If you're worried there won't be enough there to justify the purchase, hang on the forums for a bit, see how much value people are getting from it, and decide whether to buy it.

Thirdly: chap, we need posters to be respectful to devs as well to players. If you're going to keep posting here, can you lose the tone?

[nephilimnexus]

I'm not trying to be rude, honestly. And I do appreciate the writing style. It's one of the best parts of the game. I'm just trying to express concern. I just don't know if there is any way to not sound negative about it, or if it's even possible for that matter.

I'm a fan, generally speaking, and my concern is that of a fan. A weak DLC could lower this game's otherwise outstanding ratings, and I don't want that to happen. So again, I ask that you consider at least making your DLC a complete pack of all the unfinished career paths. I'd happily buy that and I think many others would, too.

[Psyringe]

Originally posted by nephilimnexus:

A weak DLC could lower this game's otherwise outstanding ratings, and I don't want that to happen. So again, I ask that you consider at least making your DLC a complete pack of all the unfinished career paths. I'd happily buy that and I think many others would, too.

To be honest, I don't see why a "Dancer DLC" would be weaker than an "All careers" DLC. I would expect the writing to be at Alexis' usual (high) level either way.

In terms of value proposition, it's all about finding the right price for the product. Would you prefer 4 individual career path DLCs at $3 each or one "4 career paths" DLC at $10? The second option would be cheaper, but the first option gives you each new path as it releases, instead of having to wait until all of them are finished.

(Not saying that this is the pricing that Alexis has in mind, just using some imagined numbers to illustrate a common situation.)

[AK]

> I just don't know if there is any way to not sound negative about it, or if it's even possible for that matter.

Take a break, come back tomorrow, reread your post. You may be coming across as more aggressive than you intend to be. Please take extra care to be courteous in all your posts from here on in.

Re DLC: the content we're adding to the game is roughly 70% free, 30% paid (100% free to folk who bought before launch or in launch week.) All the new content is added by me, sitting at this keyboard, writing it, and by Lottie and our other artists drawing it, and we all want to get paid for our time. We haven't held anything back. There are no unlocks of existing content. We're happy with our strategy, and this is my final word on the topic.

[bridgeofblues]

I understand where you’re coming from but again we really kind of buy this for the mechanical addition it will add in the writing/lore. There’s a lot of stuff he’s adding in for free like Playable Longs. And the thing is many of us know what we’re getting in for I look at it like this let’s have a cost $4 to $5 dollars. This is a boatload of contact and mechanical additions he’s adding in plus the his writing. Let’s be honest were playing a game that is 3/4 powered by our imagination so the game lives and dies by AK writing able. And there’s many other things interesting things beautiful things he wants to add in the future that’s not even in the road map. Alexis is releasing and building a game were 3/4 of the mechanical additions are free andthe DLC stuff is just that fun interesting extra stuff. Let’s say cost 5 to 6 dollars that’s nothing but a cuppa coffee and sandwich. Which one will you get more enjoyment out of?

. I always think about when I get stuff like this how much money would I spend partying in NYC.

[zeratulcraft]

Man I can't believe some of the stuff in this thread. I have 68 hours in the game just with the base. That is a fantastic value return.
The other thing you've got to remember is that while they sit there and work on the DLC, they're NOT working on something else. They have bills to pay and food they need to eat to live. It's an opportunity cost.
I can't wait for the next stuff to come out, and desperately wish it would hurry up and be released, but my appetite only grows.

[nephilimnexus]

Originally posted by Alexis Kennedy:

>Take a break, come back tomorrow, reread your post.

I did that, and I also found this in my mailbox:

"Warning For: Disrespectful Post"

If this is how you take the slightest criticism, then I have nothing further to add. Good fortune in all your endeavors and farewell.

[AK]

You made a snarky post yesterday, and I deleted it and sent the warning.

I wield the banhammer pretty enthusiastically round these parts, and if most people had taken the tone you've taken on a buncha threads I'd have banned you. But I think if you calm down and make a real effort to be polite to everyone, you're obviously smart and enthusiastic and can add a lot of value.

Up to you! I'd be equally sorry to see you go, or to have to deal with you if you don't calm down.

[bridgeofblues]

Originally posted by nephilimnexus:

Originally posted by Alexis Kennedy:

>Take a break, come back tomorrow, reread your post.

I did that, and I also found this in my mailbox:

"Warning For: Disrespectful Post"

If this is how you take the slightest criticism, then I have nothing further to add. Good fortune in all your endeavors and farewell.

I honestly do not want to see you go. I think another big convention here to his very nature you’re applying some type of loot box devilishly sneakily mentality from Alexis. You’re saying it’s already in the game why do not give for free. This is not some couple lines code that is being blocked up content is making you pay for it. But the nature of how this game designs any additions going to be code wise incredibly small we’re paying for is Alexis is artistic ability Married to gameplay mechanics. If this was a boardgame you would go to a paid for expansion that said this is the same thing but he’s adding in free stuff on top of this this is fun extra.

[Malena Mordekai]

I can't BELIEVE this topic
Dancers was THE MOST expected thing for me at the game, I was extremely satisfied with this preview and I fail to see how any of us is getting slothful content.
Also that's how a small company proceeds. We are getting WAY MORE content than I would expect from just a couple and some freelancers.
Thanks for you being a Moth Writer, btw, Alexis. Don't ever stop flying.

[Psyringe]

Just to throw another bit of "reason" into this thread:

From reading the OP's comments, I got the impression that the Dancer DLC included the dancer job and little else (and that that was his main criticism). But when I checked out the actual contents of the DLC, I found that it also includes two new ascensions, and more lore. I wonder if there has simply been a misunderstanding about the contents of the DLC.

[bridgeofblues]

Originally posted by Psyringe:

Just to throw another bit of "reason" into this thread:

From reading the OP's comments, I got the impression that the Dancer DLC included the dancer job and little else (and that that was his main criticism). But when I checked out the actual contents of the DLC, I found that it also includes two new ascensions, and more lore. I wonder if there has simply been a misunderstanding about the contents of the DLC.

I want to give the benefit of the doubt and say they haven’t read it. This is all one really big misunderstanding.