Why does boost feel awful in this game?

[Juken]

I went back with really happy memories of boosting in this game and after playing Frontiers I slam into walls and it feels like garbage. Will Sonic X Shadow Generations have a 1:1 replica of Sonic's sections or will things be rebalanced/tweaked?

[▽ENGE◬NCE]

itzDerrio a écrit :

and for the umpteenth time - SONIC UNLEASHED IS NOT REALISTIC! EVERYTHING IN THE GAME IS LITERAL CARTOON MODELS & OBJECTS

I'm gonna have to agree with you on this one. Sonic unleashed has one of the best depictions of sonic's world ever. There's no green hill plastered everywhere, it is just locations that VAGUELY resemble real world locations. It also helps that the humans match sonic's artstyle unlike 06.

[Ikagura]

vekkeep a écrit :

Ikagura a écrit :

Realism with the engine =/= realism with the visuals.

Outside of levels like Starlight Zone everything you see in Sonic is colorful and surrealist.

Sure, there's a part of realism (like Chemical Plant having a city background or even Metropolis using machines you could find irl) but Sonic was never meant to be set in our own world.

The whole reason why this planet is called Mobius was to make that distinction. Shame that Sega decided to follow the Japanese "lore" with the planet being called Earth (in the same way that Final Fantasy VII had a world similar to ours yet had surreal elements).

Ironically Mario's first games he starred in (no, not Super Mario Bros but Donkey Kong, DK2 and Mario Bros the Arcade game) were all set in a realistic world (well, a skyscraper and a sewer) before going into the Mushroom Kingdom so it makes Mario de facto more realistic than Sonic in his first game.

Colours' art style still didn't age a bit since it's set in surreal environments whereas Unleashed's realism won't age the best in some areas (and let's not talk about the Wii port).

Oh and please, for a Wii game Colours has no mediocre graphics because the devs knew that the console wasn't HD so they made it work.

Also graphics don't make a game either, there's a reason why Wii games by Nintendo aged better than your typical PS3 and Xbox 360 game with the yellow filter and ultra realistic look. Don't tell me that Wii games are looking less good because it wasn't HD.


For the same reason that PS2 games are still looking fine because it's still groundbreaking.

What sets the sonic franchise apart from other platformers is that its levels take place in some sort of real world setting most of the time. But it isn't our world, it's still sonic's world, so there's still a level of "unrealism."

For example, Those pyramid levels from adventure 2, The mystic ruins from adventure, grand metropolis from heroes, literally every level from shadow the hedgehog, every level from unleashed, and much more. Sonic's levels were always different from mario's levels since day 1.

Take all of that away and you end up with lost world, with its levels looking like they belong in a mario game. But apparently that's what you want.

The classic games were quite surreal.

We don't need photorealism.


Lost World's issues were way beyond the art style.

[▽ENGE◬NCE]

Ikagura a écrit :

vekkeep a écrit :

What sets the sonic franchise apart from other platformers is that its levels take place in some sort of real world setting most of the time. But it isn't our world, it's still sonic's world, so there's still a level of "unrealism."

For example, Those pyramid levels from adventure 2, The mystic ruins from adventure, grand metropolis from heroes, literally every level from shadow the hedgehog, every level from unleashed, and much more. Sonic's levels were always different from mario's levels since day 1.

Take all of that away and you end up with lost world, with its levels looking like they belong in a mario game. But apparently that's what you want.

The classic games were quite surreal.

We don't need photorealism.


Lost World's issues were way beyond the art style.

The adventure games are not photorealistic, did you even read what i said?

And stop trying to defend lost world, one of its main issues is copying mario and that's a fact.

[Ikagura]

vekkeep a écrit :

Ikagura a écrit :

The classic games were quite surreal.

We don't need photorealism.


Lost World's issues were way beyond the art style.

The adventure games are not photorealistic, did you even read what i said?

And stop trying to defend lost world, one of its main issues is copying mario and that's a fact.

Adventure 1 literally had the team taking pictures in vacations to put it in the game.

SA2's first level was San Francisco.


Lost World isn't bad because it's looking like a Mario game (because Mario games are good to begin with), it was bad because it was a bland parkour gameplay and not a proper boost game.

I mean Sonic himself has always been meant to copy Mario from the get go.

[▽ENGE◬NCE]

Ikagura a écrit :

SA2's first level was San Francisco.

Did they say it was san francisco? Are there giant robots on the streets trying to kill sonic in real life? Did the events of adventure 2 happen in real life? Did 9/11 happen in adventure 2? Is the actual US president in adventure 2? Sonic adventure 2 is completely fictional, and takes place in an alternate version of our world (sometimes known as mobius) where the sonic characters live.

Ikagura a écrit :

Adventure 1 literally had the team taking pictures in vacations to put it in the game.

What does that have to do with sonic living in our world?

Ikagura a écrit :

Lost World isn't bad because it's looking like a Mario game (because Mario games are good to begin with), it was bad because it was a bland parkour gameplay and not a proper boost game.

I mean Sonic himself has always been meant to copy Mario from the get go.

Yeah but not to the extreme like lost world. Yes they were competing with mario at the time, but not anymore.

The sonic franchise has always been doing its own thing since sonic 1, and even more-so in the newer games.

[Ikagura]

vekkeep a écrit :

Ikagura a écrit :

SA2's first level was San Francisco.

Did they say it was san francisco? Are there giant robots on the streets trying to kill sonic in real life? Did the events of adventure 2 happen in real life? Did 9/11 happen in adventure 2? Is the actual US president in adventure 2? Sonic adventure 2 is completely fictional, and takes place in an alternate version of our world (sometimes known as mobius) where the sonic characters live.

Ikagura a écrit :

Adventure 1 literally had the team taking pictures in vacations to put it in the game.

What does that have to do with sonic living in our world?

Ikagura a écrit :

Lost World isn't bad because it's looking like a Mario game (because Mario games are good to begin with), it was bad because it was a bland parkour gameplay and not a proper boost game.

I mean Sonic himself has always been meant to copy Mario from the get go.

Yeah but not to the extreme like lost world. Yes they were competing with mario at the time, but not anymore.

The sonic franchise has always been doing its own thing since sonic 1, and even more-so in the newer games.

Sonic on the Genesis felt less realistic.


We didn't need humans in a realistic city with the characters talking.

[▽ENGE◬NCE]

Ikagura a écrit :

Sonic on the Genesis felt less realistic.


We didn't need humans in a realistic city with the characters talking.

Then you're one of those people who think sonic should always be like the classic games, and think sonic mania is the best sonic game. Do you hate when a game franchise tries something new and doesn't stick to one thing and release the same game over and over again like new super mario bros?

[Ikagura]

vekkeep a écrit :

Ikagura a écrit :

Sonic on the Genesis felt less realistic.


We didn't need humans in a realistic city with the characters talking.

Then you're one of those people who think sonic should always be like the classic games, and think sonic mania is the best sonic game. Do you hate when a game franchise tries something new and doesn't stick to one thing and release the same game over and over again like new super mario bros?

Yet the franchise was more appreciated than with the messy shift to 3D.

When Mania came out it was seen as one of the best Sonic game in the last two decades.

I don't hate novelty but when a franchise jumps the shark and goes in a totally different direction that does not follow the original intent I don't see why they didn't make it a new IP instead.

Same with Castlevania where Lord of Shadow has nothing to do with the OGs.

Yet the New Super Mario Bros games are, overall, fundamentally better than most of the mainline Sonic games. NSMB DS and Wii are still good platformers because Nintendo cared.

Sega made Sonic 4 which was bad (or just mediocre for Episode 2).

It's not a surprise how appreciated retro styled games like Spark the Electric Jester and Freedom Planet.

[▽ENGE◬NCE]

Ikagura a écrit :

Yet the franchise was more appreciated than with the messy shift to 3D.

When Mania came out it was seen as one of the best Sonic game in the last two decades.

I don't hate novelty but when a franchise jumps the shark and goes in a totally different direction that does not follow the original intent I don't see why they didn't make it a new IP instead.

Same with Castlevania where Lord of Shadow has nothing to do with the OGs.

Yet the New Super Mario Bros games are, overall, fundamentally better than most of the mainline Sonic games. NSMB DS and Wii are still good platformers because Nintendo cared.

Sega made Sonic 4 which was bad (or just mediocre for Episode 2).

It's not a surprise how appreciated retro styled games like Spark the Electric Jester and Freedom Planet.

You know what? That's fine, it's your opinion and i can sorta respect that. But you should know that when mario switched to 3D, no one complained because it was mario, but when sonic does the same suddenly it is seen as a "rough transition into 3D" even though the games are genuinely good. Well you do you i guess.

[NBOX21]

Ikagura a écrit :

I mean Sonic himself has always been meant to copy Mario from the get go.

No. Sonic was always meant to compete with Mario, which is completely different from the intention of copying Mario. SEGA tried that before with Alex Kidd but that franchise went nowhere, and it took until Sonic the Hedgehog on the Mega Drive for Mario to finally have some proper competition in the platformer mascot genre.

What really helped make Sonic stand out from Mario was how different his games were in terms of tone, direction and gameplay. Sonic 1 was a very different kind of platformer compared to Super Mario World in the same way Crash Bandicoot was a very different 3D platformer from Super Mario 64. Mario, Sonic and Crash all helped define what platformers should be, but in very different ways.

So no, Sonic never tried to "copy" Mario, he was just simply meant to get a slice of that mascot platformer pie that Mario had.

Sonic on the Genesis felt less realistic.


We didn't need humans in a realistic city with the characters talking.

Fun fact: Once you get all 180 emblems in Sonic Adventure 2 and unlock Green Hill Zone, you can see its location is a small island south of the mainland from where the rest of the game takes place, aka South Island, where Sonic 1 takes place in, implying that the Mega Drive games took place in the same world as the Adventure series.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3150222247
As for characters talking, Sonic's been doing that since Sonic CD. If technology back then allowed for proper voiced dialogue for all the characters, SEGA would have obviously done just that for Sonic and the other characters.

[itzDerrio]

NBOX21 a écrit :

What really helped make Sonic stand out from Mario was how different his games were in terms of tone, direction and gameplay.

facts, exactly. my gamecube wasn’t for mario/nintendo, it was for sonic.

SA1/2 > Mario Sunshine
Sonic Riders > Mario Kart
Sonic Mega Collection > Whatever retro mario games were on the GC

Sonic initially never tried to be like mario, and had way cooler & appealing games. It wasn’t until crap like colors, lost world, the olympic party games, hell even sega all star racing (although good) etc , that sonic started chasing mario

[Alder613]

Frontiers feels like [REDACTED] to play compared to Generations and even Forces to a lesser extent.