The fastest thing alive

[Zappy]

You know, Shadow[sta.sh].
(The Sonic Generations forums seem to count for any Sonic game at all, so...)

Edit: If wondering, the screenshot is from Sonic Battle on GameBoy Advance (well, an emulator, but still).

[Zappy]

I don't necessarily mean "the fastest runner alive". I mean "the living being which can move the fastest, with or without help", in which case Shadow seems to win.
Though yes, Sonic's the fastest runner alive, not Shadow.

Also, in Sonic Generations during the rival battle with Shadow (on the console version), if you do a homing attack on Shadow and then boost or by any other means get way ahead of Shadow while boosting, Shadow can boost at much higher speeds than Sonic, catching up with him in mere seconds if Sonic did the homing attack thing. But still, Shadow doesn't run while boosting, he just... flies?

[Zappy]

Okay. But Shadow is still faster than Sonic. Maybe not on his own, but he is faster than Sonic.

[MrFluffyWolf]

Actually, his shoes don't really add to his speed at all, Shadow isnt even fast in any sense.
He keeps up with Sonic by using Chaos Control with an emerald (as explained in pretty much the first moment sonic ever sees him in SA2.)
So, Shadow doesn't move fast at all. He either teleports or bends time aorund him to be slower, his actual movement is no faster than Tails or Knuckles. He only SEEMS to move faster via manipulation of time and space.
I.E. He beats Sonic in a race by making Sonic move slower, NOT by moving faster than Sonic.

[MrFluffyWolf]

Originally posted by xSonic521x:

No, because his shoes are doing the work. If anyone could have his shoes, heck, even Amy or Silver would be faster than Sonic. And comparing the two speeds based on games alone isn't enough to validate that at all, I'm sorry. Because again, games HANDICAP their characters forcibly to make the game actually enjoyable and playable. Going based on comics alone ignoring realism of any kind, shadow can sometimes match Sonic's speed, but he can never truly go faster than him even with his shoes and even the removal of his inhibitor rings. Here, this will help explain Sonic's speed alone and why it is the way it is, even in comics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1QS9HZsaCE If you take that into account against Shadow, there may be times where shadow has appeared to be faster than Sonic because of him not holding back anywhere near as much as Sonic. Sonic tries to hold back and not cause destruction unless he absolutely needs to. Where as Shadow may care to a sense, but he can be more destructive as that comes with his personality and who he is. So though he may at times be going faster or doing things faster than Sonic, that is more than likely because Sonic himself doesn't go full force unless he truly needs to. Until we one day see a true "race" or "battle" of some kind between the two in terms of just speed, where neither one needs to hold back and can truly use their abilities to their fullest, it is HIGHLY likely that Sonic is faster than Shadow and we'll truly know when an opportunity presents itself.

Problems with this.
One, No his shoes don't help much. If they do, it's not a noteable amount. Sure, that one card from Sonic battle says they do, but Sonic battle IIRC is not canon, and that information runs in direct contradiction to information from Sonic Adventure 2, a canon main series game. SA2 info holds more weight than Battle becase of this. SA2 said it's through use of Chaos energy, thus I think that info takes priority.
Other issue, Game Theory is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ show. It applies math to things clearly not in scale (which means the results are going to be meaningless. If you're going to use math to measure something, every single element of the equation must be in scale, otherwise all results are garbage. Game Theory is a terrible show.)

Final issue. You said that Sonic and Shadow never had a full on, no holds barred race.
This is also incorrect. The Sonic VS Shadow Race/Battle on space colony arc that served as the last boss of the Hero/Dark campaigns in Sonic Adventure 2. That battle is exactly the kind of battle you are describing. If you run full pelt without much fighting, they run at approx. the same speed. I believe that their running speeds are identical in the game code anyaway, so it's difficult to tell.
Point is, SA2 explicitly stated how Shadow moves so fast, Sonic Battle is a non-canon spin-off, and jet shoes couldn't possibly boost his speed that much. They could never generate the thrust, and a main series, canon game has already explicitly stated that his "speed" comes from the Chaos Emerald, so I don't see that as being up for debate.

[MrFluffyWolf]

Originally posted by xSonic521x:

I understand a few points. But that video was NOT game theory, that was someone stating what was WRONG with Game Theory's, well, Game Theory and corrected it themselves and gave examples. As for the space colony ark battle, I can't count that as it's way too narrow to give full freedom and as I've stated plus as the video suggests, if Sonic went as fast as he truly could go, the space colony would simply not exist. Shadow can move through time and space, thereby defying many laws of physics. But SONIC however, needs to abide by those rules. Adding realism to an extent that let's a blue hedgehog go this fast, if Sonic went as fast as he could on the ark track against shadow, Sonic would be gone before Shadow could even realise what happened and use chaos control from his pure speed alone. Add that into the effects of what his true speed could do, he would be running so fast the metal itself would be melting from pure friction while also being pulled apart from the sheer wind force as he runs. Yes I know that he's in space and their shouldn't be any air to create wind of any kind, but they ARE all breathing somehow, and eggman himself is human and has even gone "outside" so I'm going to pretend that there's an enourmous air bubble or mini atmosphere around the entire ark. But if we were to ignore all of that, that area is still way too small and narrow for them to truly go at it within what the creators have "limited" them to. I don't even think a place would exist for that. You would probably need a solid plain, with no bumpy areas, which doesn't cut down on anything that can affect their speed, traction, anything to cause slipperyness, etc that covers the entire surface of Jupiter itself and even then I'm not sure that's enough.

Hm, I do see your points. I guess the only issue here is that the amount of actual "physics" we can apply to testing their speeds is arbitrary. We can't really reliably say anything for certain unless it's told to us in plain text, seeing as how in-game speed is obviously not running at upwards of 700+ MPH, and the floor isn't always melting.
Really. it seems like lore and things told to us are the only reliable sources of information.

[SunshineViolet]

I never went my real speed though =l