Struggling to get to grips with this game

[Didz]

I have played every Totalwar Game since Shogun, but I have to admit I'm struggling with this one. Somethings just seem really confusing.

For Example: I just had a mission issued and all it said was one of my governors has found some deeds that give him the rights to two agricultural estates. But what the hell am I supposed to do about it?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2826415070
All it says now is 'Agricultural Estate' 'Agricultural Estate', but what does that mean?

Likewise, the adviser woman keeps telling me I'm not researching anything. which is true I'm not. But that's because every research tree is locked and I can't see anyway of unlocking them.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2826416043
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2826416898

[Monteizo]

As for the estates it simply says that Leofstan wants three agricultural estates. And you will be rewarded with 10,000 if you do which is nice, but you will have to decide if it is worth it, considering the amount of estates you have (if early in the campaign will not be many, so giving someone three estates might make them more influential than your king, something you want to avoid) as well as Leofstans current level of loyalty, might be better to ignore it and let Leofstan be unhappy.

In order to see how to unlock the different tech trees just hover the cursor over the first tech of the tree (or possibly the lock-icon on the tech in question) and it will tell you what is required.

[Didz]

I managed to work it out with the help of a few video play throughs.

The Estates thing was a bit awkward but I managed to find three estates owned by Alfred to give him and so got the 10,000.

My big problem now is the lack of supplies. Not sure what I can do about that. I'm building farms as fast as I can but the whole world is at war with me at the moment so I can't think about disbanding armies. I only have three and none are full strength.

[the dude]

Unlocking parts of your tech tree as fast as possible is vital in the early game. Whenever humanly possible, select one of your least needed buildings in one of your major settlements and dismantle it on your very first turn (make sure it's only at the first upgrade level). Then build whatever will unlock the tech tree you want to research first. For me, it's always building a granary to unlock agri first. It also helps to have more food early, and those are cheap sources of food and easy to upgrade. Also, I like to research missile tech as soon as possible, so I purchase all possible missile units and disband them immediately (I may keep one or two if I need them and can afford to keep them). This helps to unlock the military side of the tech tree and I do that with a lot of the different units. You should always have your research running by no later than your 6th turn. By the time Mills is finished being researched, you should have a military branch unlocked by recruiting and disbanding (as needed). As far as the estates go, I never give them to anyone until I know I can keep my leader's influence above 10 always. It's too important to hang onto those estates early game. Keep them loyal with priests and the improve loyalty option on the character's screen. If they are disloyal only because they are more influential than your leader, consider lowering their influence. Cheers!

[Didz]

Originally posted by the dude:

Unlocking parts of your tech tree as fast as possible is vital in the early game. Whenever humanly possible, select one of your least needed buildings in one of your major settlements and dismantle it on your very first turn (make sure it's only at the first upgrade level). Then build whatever will unlock the tech tree you want to research first.

That sounds like really good advice.

The only problem I have is that in my game (I don;t know if its a glitch or a design feature) the pre-requisites to unlock the Civic Tech Trees seems to be written in some sort of meaningless programming language.

I'll post some actual examples but essentially it says something like

To unlock this Tech-Tree you must construct a building from [COMBIBOILERCONFERENCEDELAY] Building chain.

And try as I might I can't find any reference to the named Building Chain anywhere in the game not even the Building Browser.

So, just to have something to research I started with the Military Tech Tree first as its unlocks were at least written in English.

[the dude]

Agriculture = Granary/Souterrain
Industry = Forge
Military Support = Garrison
Leadership = Moot Hill/Law/Thing
Trade = Market Hall/Longphort
Libraries = Monastery

[Didz]

Originally posted by the dude:

Agriculture = Granary/Souterrain
Industry = Forge
Military Support = Garrison
Leadership = Moot Hill/Law/Thing
Trade = Market Hall/Longphort
Libraries = Monastery

Thanks for the translation.

Though I do wonder why they couldn't have just explained it in English.

I mean Moot Hil/Law/Thing? (Really) how is a human being meant to understand that?

Which one do you usually go for first?
Are some easier to get than others at the start of the game?
I seem to recall that some need to be researched first.

[CountMRVHS]

I don't usually get around to doing building/civic technology until a little later. It's usually easier to train 5 units of some type than it is to meet the building tech prereqs, depending on faction. Plus, most buildings have downsides that may be tricky to manage in the very early game.

My first choice for buildings, though, is usually the granary/souterrain related ones, as food is just so important early on. It really depends on faction, however. Circenn can get going on souterrains from the start, but for a faction like Mierce it might make sense to work up the Forge chain (since they have one in Staffordshire IIRC). If you're not playing in Ireland you probably won't be doing any Monastery building for a while. Etc.

So your options are dictated by what's around, and you need to be careful not to upgrade too quickly. There's a real danger in this game of building beyond your capacity to support yourself, either in terms of food cost (which buildings can incur), or gold, or some other negative.

[Ernavill]

Originally posted by CountMRVHS:

I don't usually get around to doing building/civic technology until a little later. It's usually easier to train 5 units of some type than it is to meet the building tech prereqs, depending on faction. Plus, most buildings have downsides that may be tricky to manage in the very early game.

My first choice for buildings, though, is usually the granary/souterrain related ones, as food is just so important early on. It really depends on faction, however. Circenn can get going on souterrains from the start, but for a faction like Mierce it might make sense to work up the Forge chain (since they have one in Staffordshire IIRC). If you're not playing in Ireland you probably won't be doing any Monastery building for a while. Etc.

So your options are dictated by what's around, and you need to be careful not to upgrade too quickly. There's a real danger in this game of building beyond your capacity to support yourself, either in terms of food cost (which buildings can incur), or gold, or some other negative.

I always go for the civic tree first. Unlocking a unit upgrade is fun, but they also drain your economy more than the 1st tier unit does. Whereas the civic technologies all strengthen your economy, allowing you to grow and upgrade buildings much faster. And the earlier you adopt them, the longer you benefit from their effect.

Especially the agriculture one is really beneficial early on as you'll be investing a lot in agricultural buildings to improve your food supply. By adopting the corresponding technologies you'll increase your income and food at the same time.

[the dude]

Bottom line is, get the research going as early as possible. I don't know any way to begin research faster than: [Turn 1] Dismantle a level one building that is not vital in the early game, [Turns 2-5] Build a 4-turn building (like Granary) to unlock a civic branch, [Turn 6] Start researching. There's usually a maximum of 2 units available (maybe 3, combining archers and skirmishers) at the start, but the number of turns to replenish the extra 2 or 3 units needed to unlock always takes me well past 6 turns. I can usually get a Military tech started around turn 10, and I've already unlocked and researched my first civic tech tree item. I discovered this on maybe my 3rd campaign accidentally because I had a level one church in my major settlement, with no church income coming from the minor settlements to apply the bonus to. All it did for me was increase order, but I was already well into the green. It provided no real benefit to me so I dismantled it. It dawned on me on my 2nd turn that by starting my granary, I was going to get an early start on my tech along with the much needed boost in food production. I've even built my Moot Hill building before, only to dismantle it as soon as it finishes in order to unlock the Leadership branch. Depending on the province, there is almost always a building WAY more beneficial than the small amount of added income gained from the reduced corruption they provide. Anyway, just a couple details I wished I knew before my first couple of campaigns. Cheers.

Edit: I just started a new campaign with Strat Clut, and I discovered that there is no need to dismantle a building since they begin with a level one granary already. That allows me to simply upgrade it to level 2, which is also only 4 turns, and I will be able to research Agri on my 5th turn. The only downside is that it is a little more expensive.

[Didz]

Originally posted by CountMRVHS:

I don't usually get around to doing building/civic technology until a little later. It's usually easier to train 5 units of some type than it is to meet the building tech prereqs, depending on faction. Plus, most buildings have downsides that may be tricky to manage in the very early game.

That's precisely what I did in my first Wessex game. Building 5 x Spear units and then starting the Spear Unit research.

Although I later realised that what I probably should have done in Turn 1 is build 5 x Sword/Axe units. As you can do that in one turn playing Wessex and so unlock the Melee Research immediately. Plus the 'Warrior Society' is the final improvement of that research line, which in turn unlocks the Recruitment Civic Research. So, it actually make perfect sense to concentrate on Melee research first and give it priority.

Originally posted by Ernavill:

I always go for the civic tree first. Unlocking a unit upgrade is fun, but they also drain your economy more than the 1st tier unit does. Whereas the civic technologies all strengthen your economy, allowing you to grow and upgrade buildings much faster. And the earlier you adopt them, the longer you benefit from their effect.

Especially the agriculture one is really beneficial early on as you'll be investing a lot in agricultural buildings to improve your food supply. By adopting the corresponding technologies you'll increase your income and food at the same time.

That's interesting, and I can understand the logic of what you are saying, but how do you do that?

I've worked out how to unlock the Melee Research on Turn 1, and why iy makes sense to aim for the 'Warrior Society' as a priority to unlock Recruitment.

But I know of no way to unlock a Civic Research chain on Turn 1.

'The Dude' suggested that the way to do it was to go around and demolish all your town buildings on turn one to free up one or more Town Building slots, and then to either reconstruct what was there, or replace it with something would unlock a Civic Research Train.

I actually tried this in a test game and managed to unlock several Civic Research Chains by Turn 5. But can't see how one would do it any faster than that.

Originally posted by the dude:

Bottom line is, get the research going as early as possible.

I don't know any way to begin research faster than: [Turn 1] Dismantle a level one building that is not vital in the early game, [Turns 2-5] Build a 4-turn building (like Granary) to unlock a civic branch, [Turn 6] Start researching.

Hi!

I was just talking about you.

As I said I tried this strategy last night using a test game and managed to unlock several Civic Research Chains on Turn 5 when the replacement buildings were finished.

But what I decided I needed was a much better understanding of which buildings feel within each of the various Building Chains and i spent ages last might trying to find some sort of list or chart online that defined which was which.

Tech-Tree	Gibbersh Builing Chains	Translation
Agriculture	Granary/Souterrain/Fogou	Build a Granary or Souterrain or a Fogou(restricted building)?
Industry	Forge/Stadfordscir Forge	Build a Forge or Stadfordscir Forge?
Military Support	Garrison	Build a Garrison or upgrade one perhaps?
Leadership	Moot Hill/Law/Thing	Build a Moot Hill, but no sure what a Law or Thing building is?
Trade	Market Hall/Longphort	Build a Market Hall or Longphort?
Libraries	Monastery	Build a Monastery? But Monasteries can only be built in certain locations?

Also as you say even if you follow your burn and rebuild strategy it still takes four turns to deliver a result so you still have four turns with no research. So you might as well unlock Melee in Turn 1 and research it immediately as it will be finished by Turn 4 anyway and you can then switch to civic's if you wish..

[CountMRVHS]

Originally posted by Ernavill:

I always go for the civic tree first. Unlocking a unit upgrade is fun, but they also drain your economy more than the 1st tier unit does. Whereas the civic technologies all strengthen your economy, allowing you to grow and upgrade buildings much faster. And the earlier you adopt them, the longer you benefit from their effect.

Especially the agriculture one is really beneficial early on as you'll be investing a lot in agricultural buildings to improve your food supply. By adopting the corresponding technologies you'll increase your income and food at the same time.

Yeah, the upgraded units do have a higher cost associated with them, but then so do the buildings you'll need to build in order to unlock a civic tech. I find it easier to train 5 units in the first turn or 2 (depending on the faction & food supply) and upgrade a farm or fishing village to offset the food cost, than to start off upgrading a main building chain (which often costs food).

On the other hand, I just started a Sudreyar campaign yesterday in which I found myself upgrading Ioua's monastery immediately, so that civic tree was the first one I unlocked - probably a good thing, as IIRC the Sea-kings get potential for bad traits if they don't have a library built, and the public order was helpful once I started expanding. But Sudreyar seems like a bit of an exception, as they have a slower early game. That tier-2 monastery building cost me 15 food, effectively denying me 2 units - but I could afford to wait (and offset the cost by upgrading my fishing villages) because I made peace with the nearby highlanders and instead attacked Orkney, rather than joining them in a war against Gallgoidel.

Definitely agree about the civic trees, though - the Agriculture one is a high priority! I just find myself usually needing to build some kind of military in the first couple turns, so it's easier to start the military tech as a result of that early training.


Didz, the building type will be indicated on the building description, which you can check on the building browser if I remember right, and probably in a couple of other places. For example, you'll look at one of the red-colored buildings at the far left of the display for the buildings present in a settlement; it will have its name at the top, and then underneath will say "LAW" to tell you what type it is.

To start a civic tech, you don't need to destroy a building - you can instead upgrade the leftmost building in the "capital" of one of your provinces. For example if you're playing Sudreyar you can upgrade the monastery building on Ioua to a higher tier and start researching the library chain.

[Didz]

Originally posted by CountMRVHS:

Didz, the building type will be indicated on the building description, which you can check on the building browser if I remember right, and probably in a couple of other places. For example, you'll look at one of the red-colored buildings at the far left of the display for the buildings present in a settlement; it will have its name at the top, and then underneath will say "LAW" to tell you what type it is.

To start a civic tech, you don't need to destroy a building - you can instead upgrade the leftmost building in the "capital" of one of your provinces. For example if you're playing Sudreyar you can upgrade the monastery building on Ioua to a higher tier and start researching the library chain.

Oh! Thanks.

I was looking for some sort of table showing Building Chains.

What I might do then to help myself and others if try and create such a table for player reference.

[CountMRVHS]

That'd be cool! It's always good to see people putting together useful documents.

[Didz]

Originally posted by CountMRVHS:

That'd be cool! It's always good to see people putting together useful documents.

I had a look at this last night but unfortunately its looks like its going to be harder than I hoped.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2829777009
@CountMRVHS is perfectly correct, if you left click on an existing building it does tell you underneath the building name what chain it belongs to. Unfortunately, when you go to the building browser and click on 'All Buildings' it does give you the same information.

So, I think producing an accurate chart will either require you to build a sample of every building during game play, or at a more practical level to hack the game files and extract the information from the building tables.

Unless, of course these are the Building Chains.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2829779285
In which case the mystery is solved and no chart is actually needed.

My only doubt is that having gone through the entire building browser I couldn't find any mention of the Building Chains: SOUTERRAIN; LAW; THING; or MARKET HALL. Which could imply that they are not the same thing.

[CountMRVHS]

Yeah, I'd say those are the building chains in the browser there.

As for the Souterrain, that's a Circenn-only building chain. I think "Thing" would be restricted to the vikings or specifically Sea-kings. Law and Market Hall should be universal, though - but they would be in the "Great Hall" section, I think.