A Total War Saga: Thrones of Britannia

A Total War Saga: Thrones of Britannia

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Loyalty and Allegiance
Early game I basically ignore the creeping Usurper Allegiance because it doesn't seem like much of a facotor.

But, is there a mechanic I can use to counter this before it becomes a problem? I really just see it as a number that slowly grows within some of my nobles and settlements outside anything I can do in-game, as far as I know.

I did a play through as Strat Clut and got up to the Ultimate VIctory conditions before my empire started falling apart.

My king died and his son that I had setup as heir manually because he was a good general seemed like a good idea at the time.

Pre-patch, I gathered that Influence points were increased better by generals than by Governors, I didn't want a Governor king, because I believe they lack influence and you start getting Loytalty problems later on when a Governor Heir takes the throne. At least that seemed to happen in a past, pre-patch, playthrough.

So, my new king had 10 influence, but I found him being peppered with pop-up situations calling for him to lose at least one influence over and over. Soon, and I didn't even realize it, he had zero, even negative influence and Usurper Allegience was taking over and causing rebellions everywhere. I couldn't complete the Ultaimte Victory conditions. I will attempt to go back to an older save and pick up from there because it was such a good game before I found him at zero INF.

But... Is Usurper tied to my King's influence? Or is there any separate mechanice that lets me squelch Usurper Allegience?

In late game, when I found myself at war with basically the whole map and I needed lots of armies, food crisis ensued, a feast was out of the question because I was holding on to positive food by the taking of just one settlement's farm, it was a tough situation.

Do conquests as a general raise INfluence? I don't know exactly what triggers increases in influence outside Feasts, but I noticed pre-patch, my king as the lead General never had influenc problems... a General heir pre-patch seemed to keep solid influence too, but it could be that being a general and gaining heroism with positive battle outcomes etc. - has no bearing on Influence. Is that true?

I am also thinking that just leaving provinces ungoverned is the way to go, because as soon as I appoint a new governor I have a new face giving me loyalty problems. Is that a good way to go? I realize that family loyalty will always have to be dealt with, even if they're just sitting on their arse with no job.


I get that loyalty drops after taking a settlement with estates, but loyalty seems to drop suddently for no apparent reason post-patch, I just can't figure it out. I pay people off, give out estates, hit the End Turn button with at least 3-loyalty to all, then when my turn comes up I have a stack of rings at the top of my screen again, mainly I believe because of my heir-king's low influence. Could that be it?

Any help is appreciated.
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Showing 1-5 of 5 comments
DerHundKaiser Sep 11, 2018 @ 6:28pm 
I would really love to know any answers to this, particularly Usurper allegiance
Last edited by DerHundKaiser; Sep 11, 2018 @ 6:29pm
[103] Kao70 Sep 12, 2018 @ 7:09am 
I believe your Kings' influence increases faction allegiance and certain governor traits increase usurper allegiance. Other factions generals in your territory can also increase usurper allegiance (temporarily) if they have a specific trait.

Lets say you have 8 allegiance and 4 usurper allegiance in a province it will balance out to 66% vs 33% over time.

If the influence of your King is low it will make your governers less loyal. You can increase influence by holding a feast, gaining new estates, commanding and winning battles including direct combat with your Kings' unit and having a 'correct' wife.
Last edited by [103] Kao70; Sep 12, 2018 @ 7:10am
krass Sep 13, 2018 @ 12:20am 
I think its positive public order as well, the more negative a public order, the quicker the usurper allegiance grows, if it reaches a certain point, the usurpers rebel. If its positive public order, then your faction allegiance grows hence why no rebellions

and yes i think your kings influence may play a part
Originally posted by PoutineConspiracy:
Early game I basically ignore the creeping Usurper Allegiance because it doesn't seem like much of a facotor.

But, is there a mechanic I can use to counter this before it becomes a problem? I really just see it as a number that slowly grows within some of my nobles and settlements outside anything I can do in-game, as far as I know.

Some characters have traits that give + Usurper Allegiance, and some + Faction Allegiance, and some characters don't have either. You need to check the character traits of all your generals and governors to see what they have.

If a governor has a Usurper trait, one thing you can do is to develop him along the Priest follower/branch as he ranks up: the first point of Priest gives +2 Faction Allegiance right out of the gate, which can help a lot, as most characters will usually only have +2 Usurper Allegiance, if they have any Usurper traits at all.

Even if a particular governor has high Usurper traits, you can move another character into the province with good Faction Allegiance as a general and he will counteract the governor's Usurper effect.

Your king will also exert more affect on Allegiance the closer he is to a province. So if a distant province is having high Usurper rate, consider moving the king closer, at least for a little while.


Originally posted by PoutineConspiracy:
Pre-patch, I gathered that Influence points were increased better by generals than by Governors, I didn't want a Governor king, because I believe they lack influence and you start getting Loytalty problems later on when a Governor Heir takes the throne. At least that seemed to happen in a past, pre-patch, playthrough.

A general will not necessarily get Influence faster than a governor. Influence can be raised through events, as well as by holding estates.

Importantly, hanging out around certain provincial infrastructure, or lack thereof, will give traits, traits which can affect Influence and Allegiance; and since governors tend to be in the same place for much longer than generals, they can actually rack traits up faster than generals, depending on your playstyle, province setup, and the tempo of your wars.

Governors will also gain a variety of traits based how their governing is going. A governor who governs over a province that maintains good public order, and who has higher governance rank (the little quill/feather icon with the circles after it), will tend to get traits that increase Influence.

Also, when a character is made a governor, he will get +1 Influence simply by holding governorship of the province.

Originally posted by PoutineConspiracy:
So, my new king had 10 influence, but I found him being peppered with pop-up situations calling for him to lose at least one influence over and over. Soon, and I didn't even realize it, he had zero, even negative influence and Usurper Allegience was taking over and causing rebellions everywhere. I couldn't complete the Ultaimte Victory conditions. I will attempt to go back to an older save and pick up from there because it was such a good game before I found him at zero INF.

From what I've seen, those events tend to happen as a consequence of earlier actions you took at the family management screen. If you did the action to raise a character's loyalty, for example, and you did that by giving the character money, be prepared that in the future your leader will get a dilemma event over that character, where the leader has to choose between spending more money, or losing Influence.

Assassinations also tend to generate these types of events.

Originally posted by PoutineConspiracy:
But... Is Usurper tied to my King's influence?

Yes and no: it depends on what tier of Influence the king has, and what his traits are.

At the highest influence levels, like 7 through 10, the king will give + Faction Allegiance: this doesn't eliminate or lower other characters' Usurper traits, nor does it give Faction traits to them; but it does give the king a larger weight in the Allegiance calculations for each province.

At the lowest Influence levels, the king will actually spread Usurper Allegiance himself.


Originally posted by PoutineConspiracy:


Do conquests as a general raise INfluence? I don't know exactly what triggers increases in influence outside Feasts...

Directly? No. Indirectly, yes, by way of conquering estates attached to some regions, and also by picking up traits from how you handle wars and battles.


Originally posted by PoutineConspiracy:
...but I noticed pre-patch, my king as the lead General never had influenc problems... a General heir pre-patch seemed to keep solid influence too, but it could be that being a general and gaining heroism with positive battle outcomes etc. - has no bearing on Influence. Is that true?

I am not sure, because I haven't played as Welsh factions post patch.

I know that factions all have different mechanics that affect this type of stuff.

I have Dyflin and Mierce going right now with the patch, and there have been various missions that offer leader Influence as rewards, and mechanics like Tribute (for the Norse-Gaels) also affect Influence, indirectly.

Like I said earlier, gaining positive battle outcomes, and how you gain those outcomes, does affect Influence, but in an indirect and organic way: there doesn't seem to be an across-the-board, if-P-then-Q system, like winning 10 battles = +2 Influence, or anything like that.

Originally posted by PoutineConspiracy:
I am also thinking that just leaving provinces ungoverned is the way to go, because as soon as I appoint a new governor I have a new face giving me loyalty problems. Is that a good way to go?

I would say definitely not.

Without governors, you lose a lot of advantages, boosts to income and lowered corruption for a couple.

Originally posted by PoutineConspiracy:
I realize that family loyalty will always have to be dealt with, even if they're just sitting on their♥♥♥♥♥♥with no job.

I get that loyalty drops after taking a settlement with estates, but loyalty seems to drop suddently for no apparent reason post-patch, I just can't figure it out. I pay people off, give out estates, hit the End Turn button with at least 3-loyalty to all, then when my turn comes up I have a stack of rings at the top of my screen again...

As I alluded to a little before, be careful with paying guys off, because it will usually come back to haunt you later.

As for other drops in Loyalty, this usually has to do with how you granted out your estates. Just giving estates in itself is not a magic bullet: other nobles can get covetous if they feel a noble didn't deserve an estate, or that type of estate, has too many, etc.

An older and more experienced noble may get a trait for -2 Loyalty because the last turn you have a younger, relatively inexperienced noble the estate instead, for example. Some nobles have traits where they always want more estates than lower ranked characters, and some value one type of estate more highly than another, for example placing more importance on Church estates than agricultural.

Before you grant estates, you need to have a good idea of what the attitudes and traits of all the nobles are, and then strategically grant them based on that knowledge.

Sometimes it's better to just not grant any estates at all until a tough time has calmed down.

Similarly, if a character keeps giving you problems, rather than sinking more estates and money into him, and generating more bad events/dilemmas for your leader, it may be better to just strip the troublemaker of his estates and let him do what he's going to do anyway, rebel, then take him out quickly and be done with him.

Originally posted by PoutineConspiracy:
...mainly I believe because of my heir-king's low influence. Could that be it?

Extremely low Influence will cause faction wide malus to Loyalty, but generally, the way it works is relative, especially for decent king Influence (like around 6 and higher).

King Influence causes lowered Loyalty in nobles *who have higher Influence* than the king. Nobles who have more Influence than the king will get -2 Loyalry for being, "More influential than faction leader."

You can see a breakdown of a character's Loyalty rating by hovering the cursor over his Loyalty in the character details window, or the family screen.
Last edited by Mile pro Libertate; Sep 13, 2018 @ 9:18am
Originally posted by Krass:
I think its positive public order as well, the more negative a public order, the quicker the usurper allegiance grows, if it reaches a certain point, the usurpers rebel. If its positive public order, then your faction allegiance grows hence why no rebellions

and yes i think your kings influence may play a part
No, it works the other way around: the more Usurper (and other factions' allegiances) allegiance present, the lower the public order.

In other words, Allegiance is a public order modifier.

If you hover the cursor over the public order number of a province, it will show you the breakdown, and you will see the modifiers. You will notice that having a significant percentage of competing allegiances to your Faction Allegiance will generate a red colored, negative modifier.

On the same note, you can boost public order in other ways, like by having a governor with traits that gives +5 public order, but you'll notice this does not change the breakdown of the negative public order modifiers for Allegiance.

So you raise public order by increasing Faction Allegiance, not the other way around. You don't get higher Faction Allegiance by having better public order, but better public order by having higher Faction Allegiance.
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Date Posted: Sep 7, 2018 @ 6:20am
Posts: 5