Five cultures? Huh?

[[*UNITY*]_ james]

So the Steam store page for this game says that there will be ten playable factions to pick from, out of five different cultures.

So far, four of those factions have been confirmed - Mierce, West Seaxe, Mide, and Circenn (forgive me if I mispelled any of them, I'm going off the top of my head here) - and these belong to either the Anglo-Saxon or Gaelic culture group.

But here's the thing: there's supposed to be five playable cultures. Five.

You see, my impression for this game was that the cultures would be Anglo-Saxon, Dane/Viking, Irish, Scottish, and Welsh. I know a couple of my labels might sound a bit anachronistic given the time period, but I still find Irish and Scottish being separate making more sense than just lumping them under the very broad Gaelic group, as what CA had just done.

Because it seems like its going to be Anglo-Saxon, Gaelic , Dane/Viking, Welsh... and then what? What could possibly be the fifth culture? Had CA made the Irish and Scottish separate, they could have had easily hit that quota. But now I don't know what they could do for a fifth culture.

I mean, Cornwall can be argued to have a culture of its own, but thats a bit stretching there. And is it not Gaelic, after all?

Perhaps there's some Romanized factions to be found, but wouldn't the Anglo-Saxons by now be the British culture retaining the most Roman influence already?

We know for a fact that the map is solely restricted to the British Isles and nothing outside of it, so don't expect to see any Franks or Frisians anytime soon.

I don't know, guys. What do you think they could do for a fifth culture?

[Facemeister]

From one of the videos on yt I learned that other 3 cultures will be Welsh and other two will be Vikings. "Great Viking Army" and "Viking Sea Lords". Dont know what to think about them, but my guess would be that there will be viking settlers who establish their kingdoms when Great Heathen Army arrived I'm predicting East Anglia and Northumbria to be them. Sea Lords may be some kind of migrating armies like in Attila without any land and they are trying to establish a foothold in the beginning of the game.

[Facemeister]

Maybe blood dlc, I dont know if there will be more dlcs. Maybe if game will be successful, but right now its probably the least anticipated game made by CA. By that I mean most people doesnt think highly of it and dont have much expectations.

[[*UNITY*]_ james]

Originally posted by kelt545:

The Celtic group and the Vikings are settlers.
I would like to see Frankish mercenaries in Britain: swordsmen, crossbowmen, spearmen.

I don't really get your point. It doesn't answer my question.

Also, Frankish mercenaries? Is there even any documented proof of Frankish mercenaries/adventurers fighting on the behalf of certain British lords?

[Jonnydodger]

Five cultures are:

Anglo-Saxons
Gaels (Scottish and Irish)
Welsh Kings (including Strathclyde)
Danelaw Vikings (Vikings with Anglo-Saxon flair)
Viking Raiders (True Vikings, control Dublin and the Isles off the north of Scotland)

[Mile pro Libertate]

Originally posted by *UNITY*_ james:

So the Steam store page for this game says that there will be ten playable factions to pick from, out of five different cultures.

So far, four of those factions have been confirmed - Mierce, West Seaxe, Mide, and Circenn (forgive me if I mispelled any of them, I'm going off the top of my head here) - and these belong to either the Anglo-Saxon or Gaelic culture group.

But here's the thing: there's supposed to be five playable cultures. Five.

You see, my impression for this game was that the cultures would be Anglo-Saxon, Dane/Viking, Irish, Scottish, and Welsh. I know a couple of my labels might sound a bit anachronistic given the time period, but I still find Irish and Scottish being separate making more sense than just lumping them under the very broad Gaelic group, as what CA had just done.

Because it seems like its going to be Anglo-Saxon, Gaelic , Dane/Viking, Welsh... and then what? What could possibly be the fifth culture? Had CA made the Irish and Scottish separate, they could have had easily hit that quota. But now I don't know what they could do for a fifth culture.

I mean, Cornwall can be argued to have a culture of its own, but thats a bit stretching there. And is it not Gaelic, after all?

Perhaps there's some Romanized factions to be found, but wouldn't the Anglo-Saxons by now be the British culture retaining the most Roman influence already?

We know for a fact that the map is solely restricted to the British Isles and nothing outside of it, so don't expect to see any Franks or Frisians anytime soon.

I don't know, guys. What do you think they could do for a fifth culture?

The reason they went with Alba as Gaelic is because of Dal Riata and the surviving, medieval recorded lineages of the Scots kings.

There is debate about if the origins of this kingdom and culture is more Pitctish or Gaelic, and then there is another debate to be had about who the Picts actually were, i.e. were they Brythonnic, or descendents of a much earlier Mesolithic population, or something else altogether?

But anyway, irl we have four main cultural groups in Britannia at this time:

- Gaels (e.g. Scoti)

- Brythonnic Celts (e.g. "Welsh," peoples such as in Brittany)

- "Anglo-Saxons"/Lower Germanics (e.g. Angles, Jutes, etc.)

- "Scandinavians"/Norse("Vikings" from modern day Sweden and Norway)

When CA said they would have a 5th cultural group, the only potential I could think of that would make real sense would be:

- Norse-Gaels, also called Hiberno-Norse (had colonies in places such as Leinster and Limerick; would also encompass Norse in the minor islands, such as Mann)

PS:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/712100/discussions/0/2906376154313804198/?tscn=1515099623

In this thread we were speculating back in early December what the factions would be.

As you can see, I'm in the camp that puts Alba as culturally Brythonic :) so that kinda messed with my hypothetical layout.

I also thought they'd go with a full blown "Northern Ui Nial" faction for Ireland, like in Ulster, but they went with a spin off instead (clan Cholmain, i.e. Meath...or "Mide" we are suppossed to say lol).


Sadly, for me anyway, Dalcassians are out :(

This makes sense, because they aren't really "registered" in the Irish histories till about 930 AD, but I was thinking CA was going for an episodic approach to ToB and would have the Boru uniting Ireland.

It looks now like the campaign will probably wrap up in around 935. Which raises another question: they talked about content from c. 1066 and an "end game event" which will probably be a big invasion.

Problem is, all that brings to my mind is either the last, great Norse invasion under Cnut that topples the English kingdom c.1015, or the Normans in 1066.

Either one of theses, without an episodic campaign, makes the campaign run quite long. For example, 878 to 1015 = 137 yeras, which at 4 tpy is 548 turns, about 2 and 1/2 times the length of all other TW campaigns.

So I'm not sure how CA is planning to manage that.

[Jonnydodger]

Originally posted by Mile pro Libertate:

Originally posted by *UNITY*_ james:

So the Steam store page for this game says that there will be ten playable factions to pick from, out of five different cultures.

So far, four of those factions have been confirmed - Mierce, West Seaxe, Mide, and Circenn (forgive me if I mispelled any of them, I'm going off the top of my head here) - and these belong to either the Anglo-Saxon or Gaelic culture group.

But here's the thing: there's supposed to be five playable cultures. Five.

You see, my impression for this game was that the cultures would be Anglo-Saxon, Dane/Viking, Irish, Scottish, and Welsh. I know a couple of my labels might sound a bit anachronistic given the time period, but I still find Irish and Scottish being separate making more sense than just lumping them under the very broad Gaelic group, as what CA had just done.

Because it seems like its going to be Anglo-Saxon, Gaelic , Dane/Viking, Welsh... and then what? What could possibly be the fifth culture? Had CA made the Irish and Scottish separate, they could have had easily hit that quota. But now I don't know what they could do for a fifth culture.

I mean, Cornwall can be argued to have a culture of its own, but thats a bit stretching there. And is it not Gaelic, after all?

Perhaps there's some Romanized factions to be found, but wouldn't the Anglo-Saxons by now be the British culture retaining the most Roman influence already?

We know for a fact that the map is solely restricted to the British Isles and nothing outside of it, so don't expect to see any Franks or Frisians anytime soon.

I don't know, guys. What do you think they could do for a fifth culture?

The reason they went with Alba as Gaelic is because of Dal Riata and the surviving, medieval recorded lineages of the Scots kings.

There is debate about if the origins of this kingdom and culture is more Pitctish or Gaelic, and then there is another debate to be had about who the Picts actually were, i.e. were they Brythonnic, or descendents of a much earlier Mesolithic population, or something else altogether?

But anyway, irl we have four main cultural groups in Britannia at this time:

- Gaels (e.g. Scoti)

- Brythonnic Celts (e.g. "Welsh," peoples such as in Brittany)

- "Anglo-Saxons"/Lower Germanics (e.g. Angles, Jutes, etc.)

- "Scandinavians"/Norse("Vikings" from modern day Sweden and Norway)

When CA said they would have a 5th cultural group, the only potential I could think of that would make real sense would be:

- Norse-Gaels, also called Hiberno-Norse (had colonies in places such as Leinster and Limerick; would also encompass Norse in the minor islands, such as Mann)

PS:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/712100/discussions/0/2906376154313804198/?tscn=1515099623

In this thread we were speculating back in early December what the factions would be.

As you can see, I'm in the camp that puts Alba as culturally Brythonic :) so that kinda messed with my hypothetical layout.

I also thought they'd go with a full blown "Northern Ui Nial" faction for Ireland, like in Ulster, but they went with a spin off instead (clan Cholmain, i.e. Meath...or "Mide" we are suppossed to say lol).


Sadly, for me anyway, Dalcassians are out :(

This makes sense, because they aren't really "registered" in the Irish histories till about 930 AD, but I was thinking CA was going for an episodic approach to ToB and would have the Boru uniting Ireland.

It looks now like the campaign will probably wrap up in around 935. Which raises another question: they talked about content from c. 1066 and an "end game event" which will probably be a big invasion.

Problem is, all that brings to my mind is either the last, great Norse invasion under Cnut that topples the English kingdom c.1015, or the Normans in 1066.

Either one of theses, without an episodic campaign, makes the campaign run quite long. For example, 878 to 1015 = 137 yeras, which at 4 tpy is 548 turns, about 2 and 1/2 times the length of all other TW campaigns.

So I'm not sure how CA is planning to manage that.

Just saying, the ones listed in my post were (semi) confirmed in a reddit post.

Give me a sec to find the post.

[Jonnydodger]

https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/7ujbcx/all_10_playable_factions_in_thrones_of_britannia/

Found it.

Also found a post complaining about the name "Thrones of Britannia" because Ireland isn't part of Britain. It's not (at least most of it isn't) but it's still part of the British Isles (to the wider world at least).

[Mile pro Libertate]

Originally posted by Jonnydodger:

https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/7ujbcx/all_10_playable_factions_in_thrones_of_britannia/

Found it.

Also found a post complaining about the name "Thrones of Britannia" because Ireland isn't part of Britain. It's not (at least most of it isn't) but it's still part of the British Isles (to the wider world at least).

Cool. Thanks for that link, finally lays it all to rest I guess :)

Yeah in the old days I think including Ireland as part of "Britain" would've made more sense than today, so I don't have an issue with it.

I guess you could differentiate between Hibernia and Albion, but that is sort of splitting hairs.

Britannian/Britain infers, afterall, the Britons, and the Gaelic peoples are much closer to being Briton than not, certainly much more than Saxons or something.

[Jonnydodger]

Originally posted by Mile pro Libertate:

Originally posted by Jonnydodger:

https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/7ujbcx/all_10_playable_factions_in_thrones_of_britannia/

Found it.

Also found a post complaining about the name "Thrones of Britannia" because Ireland isn't part of Britain. It's not (at least most of it isn't) but it's still part of the British Isles (to the wider world at least).

Cool. Thanks for that link, finally lays it all to rest I guess :)

Yeah in the old days I think including Ireland as part of "Britain" would've made more sense than today, so I don't have an issue with it.

I guess you could differentiate between Hibernia and Albion, but that is sort of splitting hairs.

Britannian/Britain infers, afterall, the Britons, and the Gaelic peoples are much closer to being Briton than not, certainly much more than Saxons or something.

Yeah, this archipelago has always been the British Isles to me. Only when you zoom in is when you spilt them into their respective identities and names.

Though I don't believe a united Irish people existed at the time of the game, making his point moot as an inhabitant of Ireland would have seen himself as a person of Ulaid or Connaught rather than have a proper Irish identity. In the same way someone in the lands now known as Scotland would have been a Macleod or a Fraser rather than a Scotsman.

[Kaaz]

Originally posted by Jonnydodger:

https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/7ujbcx/all_10_playable_factions_in_thrones_of_britannia/

i love that link, so much info

[Metadragon]

Anglo-Saxon, Irish Gaelic(Irish-Norse really), Welsh, Scot Gaelic, Norse.

I'd like to see a late game version Iceland Norse raiding to roughly coincide with Norman South raids.

[Facemeister]

I was right about 3/4 of Viking factions. I expected Northumbria and East Anglia being "Great Army" remnants, and expected Dublin to be one of the Sea Lords. I didn't expect Scottish and Irish being in one culture and Welsh in Strathclyde.

[Mile pro Libertate]

Originally posted by Facemeister:

I was right about 3/4 of Viking factions. I expected Northumbria and East Anglia being "Great Army" remnants, and expected Dublin to be one of the Sea Lords. I didn't expect Scottish and Irish being in one culture and Welsh in Strathclyde.

It's because Alba ("Scotland") had a Gaelic political order for several centuries. Middle Irish was the "official language" of Alba into the 11th csntury, and the ruling dynasty of the Apinids claimed descent from Irish clans. Also, interestingly enough a wife of the ruler of Meath in ToB, Flann Sinna, was the daughter of the Alpinid dynasty.

Strathclyde is "Welsh" I guess because of Brythonic Celtic culture. The Welsh and Picts are presumed to share more of a cultural lineage (Briton) than they do with the Gaels or Germanics.

This is all largely open to interpretation though.

For example, the Albanian kings may have been Picts and the Gaelic names of the early kings of Alba may simply have been Gaelic translations of Pictish names. This includes the name "Alba" (Albion) itself.

Also, it is not completely clear to what extent in this formative period Pictland and Alba were distinct, or if they were ruled jointly as one realm.

Then you have Dal Riata, which complicates things even more.

CA apparently went with the idea that, politically or regnally speaking, Alba was Gaelic, so they made them Gaelic, and also that there was distinction between the eastern and western regions of the realm.

What I think is weird is to then make Strathclyde Brythonic or "Welsh" in light of all that...why not make them regnally Gaelic too?

[Mile pro Libertate]

Originally posted by Jonnydodger:

Originally posted by Mile pro Libertate:

Cool. Thanks for that link, finally lays it all to rest I guess :)

Yeah in the old days I think including Ireland as part of "Britain" would've made more sense than today, so I don't have an issue with it.

I guess you could differentiate between Hibernia and Albion, but that is sort of splitting hairs.

Britannian/Britain infers, afterall, the Britons, and the Gaelic peoples are much closer to being Briton than not, certainly much more than Saxons or something.

Yeah, this archipelago has always been the British Isles to me. Only when you zoom in is when you spilt them into their respective identities and names.

Though I don't believe a united Irish people existed at the time of the game, making his point moot as an inhabitant of Ireland would have seen himself as a person of Ulaid or Connaught rather than have a proper Irish identity. In the same way someone in the lands now known as Scotland would have been a Macleod or a Fraser rather than a Scotsman.

Agreed.

The people of Ireland do not appear to have self identified as "Irish" until the Norman invasions in the 12th century.