Space Engineers 2 vs The Future of Starship EVO

[TheRingfinder]

With more and more information coming out about space engineers 2, I've started to wonder if starship evo is gonna have anything space engineers 2 doesn't. Personally the main appeal of EVO was the teeny tiny blocks, but now that space engineers 2 is going to have that, I'm concerned for this games development.

[ProPeach]

I haven't seen things like NPC crew, faction relationships with missions or a huge galaxy of star systems to explore announced for SE2. Starship EVO gameplay feels like it will be closer to Elite:Dangerous plus ship survival ship building, which is pretty different from SE

[Riya]

Well, it's certainly impossible for EVO to compete on graphics or dev speed. But it does have a few advantages over SE2 according to what's currently known. Like the basic framework for missions existing and being worked on, which is more than SE ever had. Plus, if I remember rightly, EVO's blocks can still go smaller than SE2's? I also think it's much more intuitive to make mechanical things in EVO using the logic blocks than messing about in SE, though I'd like a wider selection.

A lot will just depend on whether SE2 ends up just being a higher res version of SE's empty gameplay, and whether EVO gets in gear and releases survival and such anytime soon.

[Stilgar]

I think at the end of the day it's going to come down to vibes. Starship EVO has a more scifi-fantasy, futuristic, sleek kind of design and feel that I think will lend itself to a lot more story-related things, while Space Engineers has always been grittier, and more about, well, Engineering. Making a machine for a task. Not to say we can't do cool scifi-fantasy things in Space Engies, or make gritty-looking builds in Starship EVO, but they each lend a certain atmosphere that I think will ensure they have their own niches

[dszombiex]

Originally posted by Riya:

...SE2 ends up just being a higher res version of SE's empty gameplay...

It seems like this will be the case. That's all that I've ever seen on Marek's blog while they've been working on the new engine. Lots of improvements to building and the way the building grid works, faster physics but absolutely nothing about the "game" part of it.

[Fortius]

Originally posted by TheRingfinder:

I've started to wonder if starship evo is gonna have anything space engineers 2 doesn't.

Rofl.

SE2 will have 25 cm blocks and I don't yet know if you'll be able to mix big & small ones - Last time I played, you either built a big grid or a small grid ship.

EVO's smallest block size is 12.5 cm, but if you count the half & quarter height ones, you can make certain detail at 6.25 or 3.125 cm.

SE only has mechs IF you add scripts that can so-so handle the controls, but it'll fall apart due to clang if you try to use it for anything serious, and it will still barely be able to move.

EVO has mechs anyone can build, AND they're valid combat / survival tools.

SE has a couple of planets.

EVO has an entire galaxy. Planets feel larger as well.

SE has a generic rifle.

EVO lets you build custom handheld weapons.

I guess what EVO doesn't have is wolves that continously spawn on the horizon, rush your belongings in a straight line, and bite at metal blocks.
While some form of life might be nice eventually, I'm better off without it if they're that poorly made.

Edit:

EVO also doesn't have your vehicles explode if you try to drive above the speed of a brisk walk or land with less than absolute tenderness. Maybe the guys at Keen haven't figured it out yet, but Speed = Fun.

[Jeo Nugu]

One trick I've used for many years to avoid these kinds of conflicts between two similar games, is to play both.

[ProPeach]

Originally posted by Jeo Nugu:

One trick I've used for many years to avoid these kinds of conflicts between two similar games, is to play both.

The sanest take

[Kenan the Unkindled]

in terms of building, SE/SE2 doesnt have stretching (and this is something VERY unlikely to be added later on). It might seem like just a convinence at first but it makes a huge difference when you add archs, curved blocks etc. to equation. Also smallest blocks here are still smaller compared to SE2.

[Cassian]

its going to come down to which one has better performance, less bugs and gets a survival game first. At least for me, until then i wont be playing either.

[Roadie]

Originally posted by Cassian:

its going to come down to which one has better performance, less bugs and gets a survival game first. At least for me, until then i wont be playing either.

Well right now EVO has pretty bad performance overall unless you're on the absolute newest hardware.

[gerald2]

Originally posted by Fortius:

Originally posted by TheRingfinder:

I've started to wonder if starship evo is gonna have anything space engineers 2 doesn't.

Rofl.

SE2 will have 25 cm blocks and I don't yet know if you'll be able to mix big & small ones - Last time I played, you either built a big grid or a small grid ship.

EVO's smallest block size is 12.5 cm, but if you count the half & quarter height ones, you can make certain detail at 6.25 or 3.125 cm.

SE only has mechs IF you add scripts that can so-so handle the controls, but it'll fall apart due to clang if you try to use it for anything serious, and it will still barely be able to move.

EVO has mechs anyone can build, AND they're valid combat / survival tools.

SE has a couple of planets.

EVO has an entire galaxy. Planets feel larger as well.

SE has a generic rifle.

EVO lets you build custom handheld weapons.

I guess what EVO doesn't have is wolves that continously spawn on the horizon, rush your belongings in a straight line, and bite at metal blocks.
While some form of life might be nice eventually, I'm better off without it if they're that poorly made.

Edit:

EVO also doesn't have your vehicles explode if you try to drive above the speed of a brisk walk or land with less than absolute tenderness. Maybe the guys at Keen haven't figured it out yet, but Speed = Fun.

but in evoi ships fly like hot air baloons SE have flight mechanics momentum gravity etc ,

[Fortius]

Originally posted by gerald2:

but in evoi ships fly like hot air baloons SE have flight mechanics momentum gravity etc ,

Gravity is discounted, being unnecessary calculations for starships. The rest is not true.
For starters, these "hot air balloons" can reach speeds magnitudes greater than what's possible in even SE2, and momentum affects both. SEVO is merely more player friendly about manouvering thrusters, which is a great thing.
All this is pointless comparison anyway, because SE ships explode from looking at them funny, well before flying becomes a concern.

[Fortius]

Soo, I was digging through my archives and found a post I saved from the Space Engineers forums.

If anyone has 5 minutes to spare, I believe it perfectly describes just what kind of game is the SE series;

...Every time I'm hyped up enough by the sheer optimism and collection of good news in a couple of SE update videos and install this game for the Nth time, I invariably end up building a replica of the M35 Mako, ( a 6-wheeled rover / IFV from the 2007 Mass Effect game ).
Sometimes it turns out better, sometimes worse.

The years have seen some marked improvements, however some things remain a constant source of grief.

-First of those is the sheer user-unfriendliness of the game's interface.
Maybe tooltips (especially hover-over popup text for blocks), and subtly placed hints that don't invade the main field of view could improve on this.

-Then, upon getting accustomed to the wonky menus, movement, and building, and remembering to anchor my half-finished vehicle to a firm surface, lest it runs free in the night, comes the realization of just how much stuff likes to explode in this game.
Like, there'll be a momentary twitch of a rotor or a piston, a turn too sudden, two components touching, and BOOM - there goes an hours worth of construction. Seriously, those blocks aren't made of metal. They are more like eggshells filled with nitroglycerine.
So I usually end up building the same vehicle twice or thrice before I can drive them around for the first test run, because the first one will invariably be lost in a construction "accident".

-When the much avaited time of the first test drive comes, I'm further reminded of how fragile my vehicle is - The wheels even more so than the blocks. They tend to get erased from existance in a single blink of an eye, sometimes from a little jump (maybe catching air for 1-2 meters at 60-100 kph), or from driving over a tiny piece of stone on the ground. And then the undercarriage crumples and the cockpit also vaporizes.
Such circumstances could indeed render the weakest real-life cars immobile, but there are plenty that'd happily keep driving on, and let's not forget, I'm driving an imaginary videogame tank, and would like to have some off-road fun.
To which, the only current solution is either to drive like I'm carrying explosives - and considering the craters my burst apart vehicles leave I might as well be, or to turn off block damage/ voxel distortion which kills the combat and destruction aspect of the game, so it's only a half-solution.
My second Mako (of that day) managed to last long enough for me to save it's blueprint. Considering my track record so far, that's an achievement in itself.
Then, after it's inevitable loss I tried to paste it in - I didn't find the controls for fine rotation (another interface issue, for which a popup hint would be nice), so I ended up spawning the vehicle at a somewhat tilted angle a bit above ground - mind you, nothing so bad that I'd have thought it can't survive landing. Like, front-left wheels touching the ground, rear-right maybe 2 meters high in air.
Turns out I was wrong. Spawning the vehicle resulted in an instant explosion, with only tiny pieces left of the chassis, and a vast crater in the ground which'd do any air-dropped bomb proud.
So I resorted to turning off block damage, and for a while things were nice.

-Well, as nice as they can get.
I don't know if it's simply due to the terrain, or the relatively small size of planets, but the whole thing feels like I'm always on a slope. The car feels it too, because it can hardly ever stop accelerating on it's own, sometimes even with the parking brakes on.
It's also possible that I was, in fact, driving over extreme slopes, but due to how the camera sticks to my vehicle on every axis, even a vertical cliff would seem horizontal, and I'd be suprised why am I going so fast.
Regardless of that, it seems even slight slopes can accelerate a free-rolling vehicle well over 300 kph.

- After some reasonably succesful test driving, I decided it's time to add some thrusters to the hull (the Mako has these tiny downwards-facing rockets that aren't enough to make it fly, but can slow it's fall enough to survive landing).
(small)Ion thrusters soon proved to be too weak even for that, so I replaced them with (small) hydrogen thrusters.
Then came another issue of lacking interface; Nothing in the game tells the player what do these thrusters need to function. While a quick search and the game's Wikia did so, once again, tooltips would be nice. (Way more effective and handy than tutorial maps)
So, after 10 thrusters, a conveyor system, and an oxygen generator (hydrogen tank didn't fit the chassis), an increase thrust, a decrease thrust, and an on/off switch on the quickbar, there I am with a Mako that almost works like it should- Or perhaps better.
Definitely better.
We're gaining altitude, and the planet's curve is showing. I'm not blaming the game here; I was prepared for some trial and error, and went about adjusting the thrust output. Though in my brief time with the system I found no sweetspot for slow descent- only for plummeting or escape velocity- that doesn't rule out the possibility of it's existence.
Long story short, after some fun with landings and takeoffs, my character ended up staying on the planet's surface, and the vehicle on the moon's.

It is at this point where the real madness came though:

I spawned the new blueprint of the now-rocket-assisted Mako, and though the thrusters were clearly OFF when I saved it, upon spawning, the vehicle instantly hit it's top airspeed and started climbing, while simultaneously losing all six of it's wheels despite block damage being turned off, then like a stray rocket, the hull started veering wildly and randomly, sometimes flying circles in the air, sometimes bouncing on the ground, then after some kilometers of chase it was lost on the horizon.
The process repeated exactly the same on the next four spawns. On the fifth, I built a box on the ground, hoping it'd catch and halt it's movement. The car kept shaking wildly and making a terrible racket, but I managed to enter it , and make sure everything is powered down. Upon dismantling the box, the powerless vehicle flew away like the rest despite all reason, logic, or law of physics, somehow storing an infinite amount of kinetic energy and spite within it's hull.
This one, I managed to chase much further; To my amazement, I found out it's movements weren't random at all.
The vehicle, along with it's five predecessors were orbiting each other some 200 meters above ground in a bizarre Mako-Vortex, that managed to push the game's framerate down to 1 fps, despite the fact I consider my PC a fairly strong one.
Dumbfounded, I stared at this bizarre sight for a while, then hit Alt+F4 and proceeded to uninstall the game for the N+1th time.

[n00bdragon]

Remember folks, KSH is a company that makes tech demos, hypes the everloving crap out of them, and then releases them half baked into the wild. They never finish anything. They never fix the core problems with the product. They just make a new one and tell you to buy that.

This is their company's core business model.

SE2 is going to show up with a bunch of promised features "still in progress" but instead of adding those you'll get a steady trickle of other unrelated features for the next 6 years until SE3.

[Wendigo]

Originally posted by TheRingfinder:

With more and more information coming out about space engineers 2, I've started to wonder if starship evo is gonna have anything space engineers 2 doesn't. Personally the main appeal of EVO was the teeny tiny blocks, but now that space engineers 2 is going to have that, I'm concerned for this games development.

No one cares
They're 2 different games

And frankly, as a SE fan .. SE2 is currently a dissapointment
Looks cool, but it's just the same BS.

Evo is pretty much a rebirth of Interstellar RIFT, in fact I'm pretty sure one of the devs is helping with this game.