So is it just me... (Open Palm/ Closed fist - potential spoilers)

[Talithmara]

... or does the game actively reward you for Open Palm actions and actively penalize you for Closed Fist actions?


Scenarios in which I've noticed this:

Tien's Landing: Get the merchant's figurine back? Open Palm points gained, and experience. Even if you dickishly beat the thief up, that does NOT give you any closed palm points to counterbalance it! Meaning that if you don't want to get those points, you can't get that experience at all.

The Forest: Don't even get me started on how piss-easy Mother is compared to Shining Tusk. It's not even funny. But siding with the Forest Shadow against Mother is automatically an Open Palm action. Seriously?

The Arena: There's zero benefit to poisoning Khanna, as she teaches you a weapon style when you beat her and she's not even remotely challenging. Yet, not poisoning her is an Open Palm action, even if you don't warn her about the attempt on her life. If you did poison her, you get an offer from Soldier for him to take a dive and give you silver if you do a mission for him... but you already have enough silver as is, even if you've been making Open Palm choices.


... I'm trying to get some of the closed fist stuff, like the Tempest style, and this is just hell. I hate how unbalanced it is. Why give you the option of going the "evil" route if there's no reward for it?

[__-__-__]

It's a typical good\evil system dressed up to look different, but still features sensible good guys who almost always have more than they need and raving evil maniacs that seem to lust for rewards that aren't that rewarding.

I found it particularly annoying that any number of decisions could be either Open Palm or Closed Fist depending on a particular player's perspective but were forced into being one or the other no matter your personal perspective.

I don't know for sure but there may be a cheat or something that will allow you to choose what philosophy you adhere to and ignore the developer's restrictions (though you will still need to do some Closed Fist stuff to get specific styles).

[cdrive1]

That bit really SUCKED for me, considering that Bioware CANNOT help themselves in that regard. As good as they can be in making games, they are TOO prone to making games have blatant 'Good and Evil' options even when they try to be subtle.
This game is one example but here's another: MASS EFFECT.

Renegade actions are just more you being '♥♥♥♥ Shepherd' if not out and out evil WITH said actions actually damaging that character's appearance if they decide to be a ♥♥♥♥. Granted I would say 'Shut up reporter and ♥♥♥♥ YOU in particular Council.' but while it IS one of their more subtle works, they still cannot help themselves as some decisions are somewhat evil while not giving you anything really meaningful. Meanwhile Paragon just make you 'Jesus Shepherd' AND gives more lasting rewards.
If I wanted Blatant Good/Evil Choices then I'd play a game with that kind of choice *Hell KotOR 2 is AMAZING and manages to have good and evil choices WHILE still allowing a sort of feeling of moral greyness *IN STAR WARS OF ALL THINGS.**

[Talithmara]

I agree completely. Paragon and Regenage Shepard still had the same goals, they just went about them in a different way. Do they take the moral high ground, or get it done at all costs? Sure, sometimes this had farther-reaching implications, but for the most part, you could play as Renegade Shepard without completely screwing the whole galaxy over.

Jade Empire, though? They present the Open Palm/Closed fist as "Coddling the weak versus using hardship to encourage growth." But some of the Closed Fist actions aren't even close to being that, and are just plain dickish for the hell of it - things like the medicine for Khanna near the start of the game. Paying extra for the stuff that won't leave her permanently crippled is open palm, and just tricking her into permanent injury is closed fist? How is that supposed to encourage growth?

There's not only zero subtlety or nuance, but... it's just... kind of bad.

[cdrive1]

Originally posted by Ranylyn:

I agree completely. Paragon and Renegade Shepard still had the same goals, they just went about them in a different way. Do they take the moral high ground, or get it done at all costs? Sure, sometimes this had farther-reaching implications, but for the most part, you could play as Renegade Shepard without completely screwing the whole galaxy over.

Jade Empire, though? They present the Open Palm/Closed fist as "Coddling the weak versus using hardship to encourage growth." But some of the Closed Fist actions aren't even close to being that, and are just plain dickish for the hell of it - things like the medicine for Khanna near the start of the game. Paying extra for the stuff that won't leave her permanently crippled is open palm, and just tricking her into permanent injury is closed fist? How is that supposed to encourage growth?

There's not only zero subtlety or nuance, but... it's just... kind of bad.

EXACTLY! Though I love the game in spite of all its *Rather* Crippling Flaws. But yeah Bioware just could not help it, its like putting a Heroin Addict in a room with Oreos and a box of Heroin, at a certain point where do they just overlap with their old way?

Its kind of why I want a sequel made *Though since Bioware belongs to EA it ain't happening unless a fan is able to aquire that kind of permission.* So that there can be a proper 2 types of scales which would help Bioware cope with its need for blatant good and evil choices. *G/E Scale *Going Up to represent Moral High Ground and Down for falling into Evil* and OP/CF Scale *Left and Right like a set of scales** Thus allowing nuance and also keeping true to the principle.

Why do I say this? Well CF is mentioned to be more cold pragmatism but half the choices were made out as just you being a ♥♥♥♥. While OP is MEANT to be the helping of people to a fault but instead its you being a goody goody two-shoes. And Sun Li is meant to be OP worn down over time to being selfish and under a delusion of what he does being for 'The Greater Good' While Black Whirlwind is Closed Fist YET he is quite personable and understands his own problems.