Biker Reports at Motel - War with Cultists?

[Malarky]

I got turned down by the cultists at the point where I'm retrieving the 3 biker reports. I have the other two, but I can't go into the Cultist area without triggering aggression. Trying to decide whether to go to war with them. Is it worth it to go to war to get third report?

[USG_Omucupixu]

Did you already went by the gas station and kill the hungry cultists? That will explain why they're pissed.

Finding the 3 reports ends the scouting mission of the hitmen and half of them leave, making them easier to kill for the cultists

If the cultists are already pissed the hitman quests won't do you any good.

[Malarky]

Yeah, I killed the hungry cultists at gas station. I think the cultists at the motel are too powerful for me to take out at this early stage.

[Lordpfeif]

Originally posted by Malarky:

Yeah, I killed the hungry cultists at gas station. I think the cultists at the motel are too powerful for me to take out at this early stage.

it takes work, your best bet is attacking from the right. you will want two rifles.

[Themme]

Originally posted by USG_Omucupixu:

Did you already went by the gas station and kill the hungry cultists? That will explain why they're pissed.

Finding the 3 reports ends the scouting mission of the hitmen and half of them leave, making them easier to kill for the cultists

If the cultists are already pissed the hitman quests won't do you any good.

Have not been to the gas station yet and the cultist take hostile stance after i find (and kill) the third biker scout in a corner room of the Motel. This happens after a peaceful chat with the father and the trading sister in the Motel. Does not make any sense the cultist should turn hostile! I also don't understand why the third scout turns hostile in the first place after approaching him. So sorry i think this quest is pretty much messed up. Forgive my poor English i am Dutch. The janitor claims only to speak spanish but appears to be the leader or the motel gang.

[USG_Omucupixu]

Noted, it will go through a recheck and rewrite soon. My guess is that your team was visible to someone in the cultist faction when you initiated the attack in their instigation zone and that led to them being hostile.

We'll move that clue somewhere else in the next revision.

[pd28]

As far as I can see the whole biker scout scenario needs a bit of a rethink. It would make far more sense if you could have a peaceful resolution for all three of them so they can report back to the head hitman, rather than having to kill them all. The thieves in the car dealership would be be a bit lame, but you could put the guy in the pharmacy on his own behind a locked door so it's only safe to free him once you've cleared out the zombies, and sneaking into the motel to find the third man would be fine if he didn't turn hostile and compel you to kill him.

For what it's worth I can confirm that whacking the guy in Sergio's bathroom will turn the cultists hostile even after you've cleared the hitmen, killed all the scum at the gas station, and done the deal for the blueprint with Sergio - you can wander round the entire motel, but the ungrateful religious nutters will turn on you after you flush out a killer in the crapper!

[Themme]

Originally posted by USG_Omucupixu:

Noted, it will go through a recheck and rewrite soon. My guess is that your team was visible to someone in the cultist faction when you initiated the attack in their instigation zone and that led to them being hostile.

We'll move that clue somewhere else in the next revision.

As i wrote before the biker scout (or faction) turns hostile when you approach the room (or zone) by opening the door to the room the scout is in. Actual change in stance of the cultists happens after downing the biker scout. There's no other option because the scout is hostile and attacks even after taking no action in the players turn. I tried that! Maybe this info is helpfull identifying the scripting problem.

[USG_Omucupixu]

I've done some tests and I found out why. It basically comes down to the AI behavior in their own base (red or yellow zones).

In a yellow zone:

1. if you kill an NPC stealthy (without being seen OR HEARD), they won't suspect anything
2. if you kill an NPC and you are seen OR HEARD, they'll insta aggro if they are aware your recent presence in the area.
3. If you managed to perfectly sneak into a base and nobody saw you, you can get away with literally murder, meaning not even a loud sound will aggro them.

In this particular case you can't sneak past the guards to the second floor unseen so as soon as you make noise they know it was you. By "you" I mean the party member that's actually doing the combat/fired the loud weapon.

We'll be revisiting the hearing part when we rework the stealth game to make it easier to understand. But if you think about it, it makes sense. You can't go into someone's bathroom, fire a gun, then come out smiling and pretending "it wasn't me". We just need to have the UI tell that more clearly.

[pd28]

Originally posted by USG_Omucupixu:

But if you think about it, it makes sense. You can't go into someone's bathroom, fire a gun, then come out smiling and pretending "it wasn't me". We just need to have the UI tell that more clearly.

As I said before it makes absolutely no sense that the cultists should turn on you after you've killed all the hitmen at the launderette and the gas station, got the blueprint from Sergio and done them a favour by killing the remaining biker scout who's hiding in the bathroom. Aside from the mechanics of hostile/friendly zones you really need to look at the narrative logic of this, and a number of other scenarios

[76561198007484948]

Originally posted by USG_Omucupixu:

I've done some tests and I found out why. It basically comes down to the AI behavior in their own base (red or yellow zones).

We'll be revisiting the hearing part when we rework the stealth game to make it easier to understand. But if you think about it, it makes sense. You can't go into someone's bathroom, fire a gun, then come out smiling and pretending "it wasn't me". We just need to have the UI tell that more clearly.

What if you kill the bloke silently? Say, by crossbow, knife or tire iron?

[USG_Omucupixu]

If you kill him silently they do not know so they don't aggro.

[Themme]

Originally posted by USG_Omucupixu:

If you kill him silently they do not know so they don't aggro.

Ok i understand, but is it supposed to be that way or is that just a walkaround to avoid something that makes no sense? And why is the biker hostile in the first place? Something just does add up!

[Themme]

Originally posted by USG_Omucupixu:

I've done some tests and I found out why. It basically comes down to the AI behavior in their own base (red or yellow zones).

In a yellow zone:

1. if you kill an NPC stealthy (without being seen OR HEARD), they won't suspect anything
2. if you kill an NPC and you are seen OR HEARD, they'll insta aggro if they are aware your recent presence in the area.
3. If you managed to perfectly sneak into a base and nobody saw you, you can get away with literally murder, meaning not even a loud sound will aggro them.

In this particular case you can't sneak past the guards to the second floor unseen so as soon as you make noise they know it was you. By "you" I mean the party member that's actually doing the combat/fired the loud weapon.

We'll be revisiting the hearing part when we rework the stealth game to make it easier to understand. But if you think about it, it makes sense. You can't go into someone's bathroom, fire a gun, then come out smiling and pretending "it wasn't me". We just need to have the UI tell that more clearly.

Certainly if those rules remain as game basis, you need to explain this to the user / player more clearly. Those rules will apply in every map i guess?

[USG_Omucupixu]

Yep, the rules apply to the AI in general. That's how they react when they notice aggression in yellow (instigation) zone. Probably some sort of warning when you try to attack in such a zone would help, we'll think of something.