Dungeons a waste of time?

[LtlMacMcG]

Both real life time and game time (at least if the goal is to pay off the debt?)

Other than maybe one or two solid runs early in the game to get some free inventory while leveling to infinite tier 2 items I really don't see the benifit.

I mostly come to this conlusion because so far as I can tell even at higher levels the gear drops aren't great and the whole 'Fusion system' just really isn't work the time and effort given the ammount of drops you need.

I paid off my debt on my first playthrough with relative easy just going pure item shop (save maybe 3 dungeon runs early on) play.

Other than meta gaming or trying to fill out the encylopedia where really is the benifit

Thoughts and opinions?

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Speedruns of the game play the dungeon twice, to get to a guaranteed drop at the end of the second dungeon.

The dungeons are actually something that you should expect to explore "post-game" -- the game has "new game plus" features that let you carry over your progress with dungeons. Paying off the debt is first priority, and some of the fusions can help with that. Though the fusions being unlocked and the tier 2 items are both dependent on merchant level.

The post-game, including the dungeons, does a lot more to introduce you to the setting, and to provide backstory/closure on what happened before the events of the game.

There are actually six dungeons; I wouldn't expect someone to reasonably unlock more than two or three during a first-loop playthrough.

[LtlMacMcG]

Originally posted by Quint the Pondering Ghost:

Speedruns of the game play the dungeon twice, to get to a guaranteed drop at the end of the second dungeon.

The dungeons are actually something that you should expect to explore "post-game" -- the game has "new game plus" features that let you carry over your progress with dungeons. Paying off the debt is first priority, and some of the fusions can help with that. Though the fusions being unlocked and the tier 2 items are both dependent on merchant level.

The post-game, including the dungeons, does a lot more to introduce you to the setting, and to provide backstory/closure on what happened before the events of the game.

Huh, ok. Do I have to do a new game plus or can I continue on with my save so I am not worrying about the debt to experience this? Thanks!

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Originally posted by LtlMacMcG:

Originally posted by Quint the Pondering Ghost:

Speedruns of the game play the dungeon twice, to get to a guaranteed drop at the end of the second dungeon.

The dungeons are actually something that you should expect to explore "post-game" -- the game has "new game plus" features that let you carry over your progress with dungeons. Paying off the debt is first priority, and some of the fusions can help with that. Though the fusions being unlocked and the tier 2 items are both dependent on merchant level.

The post-game, including the dungeons, does a lot more to introduce you to the setting, and to provide backstory/closure on what happened before the events of the game.

Huh, ok. Do I have to do a new game plus or can I continue on with my save so I am not worrying about the debt to experience this? Thanks!

I haven't actually finished a loop yet, but I don't think the debt is increased if you do a NG+ loop so you shouldn't have to worry about it, since customer budgets and merchant levels carry over. (Like they do if you game over.)

You can unlock all the adventurers in a single playthrough under Endless Mode, but you can only get one True Card per loop, for the adventurer that you used most. I think that's the case. So, by my understanding, NG+ is for getting all the True Cards.

[Geothermal1159]

You don't even need to do a NG+ just continue your save in endless mode where there is no debt at all and you can focus on dungeon delving and getting more items to stock so when you do a NG+ you can pay it off quickly.
(plus have a super kitted out hero to dungeon dive for whatever reason)

[Anonymate]

Yes, they are a waste of time! Here is what I did in my last playthrough:
- Week 1 (_10k) - mostly dungeons - ended with about 10k + almost no items
- Week 2 (_30k) - mostly dungeons - ended with about 70k + almost no items
- Week 3 (_80k) - mostly dungeons - ended with about 80k + a few items
- Week 4 (200k) - no dungeons - ended with about 350k + a few expensive items
- Week 5 (500k) - no dungeons - ended with about 900k + lots of expensive items

As I stopped going dungeon hunting, the game got much easier. Just buy and re-sell the most expensive items you can get; you get much more pix doing that than going into dungeons. This was, imo, a mistake from the devs. They made it such that dungeons are not worth it. They probably didn't do enough playtests to notice that, and I think that's why it ended up so unbalanced. Still, after paying your debt, I think it's worth playing dungeons, UNLESS you only like the "capitalist" aspect of the game.

The game gives you three options anyway... endless mode seems great if you just want to go dungeon hunting and get great gear through fusion; survival if you only enjoy the other genre of the game; ng+ if you enjoy both or want to get the remaining true cards and 100%-complete the game.

[shoopy]

Dungeons almost seem like a different game. I paid off my loan the first time with 600k to spare without ever touching a dungeon. I didn't even talk to Louie until I started Endless Mode.

If you understand pricing then buying and selling is very efficient. Your markup almost doesn't matter except for red items. When you buy items from the guild at normal prices there's already a 42% profit when you sell at just 100% of base, so the quickest way to make money is to raise your level as fast as possible and buy more expensive items to make the most out of that 42%.

Also you can buy red items from the guild and they're still cheaper than base, but you can sell them for double, and if the boom ends, you don't actually lose because selling them at normal price is still more than what you paid for them.

[Pawnstar]

You need to do dungeon diving to get adventurers, and you will definitely need adventurers for the high yield items to sell in Survival mode, assuming you play that. The only reason I don't play survival is simply because if I make any progress there, it's not being brought back to my main game.

This game's setting is already clear from the start: it does NOT want anyone to get a game over. They decided not to punish anyone for their own ways to play the game, apart from being "like father, like daughter". Even that doesn't end your game, as you will be brought back to Day 2 with all your items that you have gotten.

[Cookie]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/70400/discussions/0/617336568082481325/

[ChaosLegion]

Originally posted by slandy:

If you understand pricing then buying and selling is very efficient. Your markup almost doesn't matter except for red items. When you buy items from the guild at normal prices there's already a 42% profit when you sell at just 100% of base, so the quickest way to make money is to raise your level as fast as possible and buy more expensive items to make the most out of that 42%.

Also you can buy red items from the guild and they're still cheaper than base, but you can sell them for double, and if the boom ends, you don't actually lose because selling them at normal price is still more than what you paid for them.

I have to say, for all the time I have invested in this game (both after and before I got in on Steam) I had NEVER actually compared the price of an item I buy fromt he Guild and the default price it has inside my shop. Literally, mindblown.

I always do dungeons because I find them fun and because I've lost my endgame saves on multiple occasions so I've yet to do clear them all. Now with all this new knowledge, I think I'm leaning most what Mobius said, i.e. the devs did not want anyone to get a game over and feel bad rather than "they did not test it through".

Either way, I'm pretty happy I visited this discussion today - again...for the first time ever visiting Recettear's discussions...wuuut?! - cuz I've learned a lot. Thanks guys!

[Cookie]

Originally posted by ChaosLegion:

I have to say, for all the time I have invested in this game (both after and before I got in on Steam) I had NEVER actually compared the price of an item I buy fromt he Guild and the default price it has inside my shop. Literally, mindblown. :lilimjoy:

It's 70% of base price at the shops. If you sell at 105% (which is a good general point to hit the best pin bonus), that's exactly a 50% profit margin.

[Hat8]

Dungeons aren't best for getting as much money as possible but you get story out of playing them.

[slatingsangan]

Resellers item shop a profitable enterprise. dungeons are just more fun.

[rock.golem | trade.tf]

Dungeons ARE the best for profit, because azure necklaces and romantic capes sell at 15,000 pix each without even trying. That's how you get enough money to upgrade the store size, which helps you level up your merchant level faster because you can get more costumers into a larger store, also wallpaper and flooring effects that as well. Plus since you don't have to stress about money you can sell items for lower prices to get more near pins and level up your merchant level even faster.

Also several costumers (Nagi, Charme, Caillou) ONLY shop at your store if you dungeon dive. Same for Louie if you never even visit the guildhall. Every customer is valuable. If you do not dungeon dive until you at least get Charme and Caillou you are actually doing it wrong, because those are permanent long term benefits that help you make more money and level up faster even without special inkwells and burnt lizards. just being a merchant and never doing dungeons ultimately hurts you in the long run. I'm not even sure Elan shows up if you don't.Nagi and Elan both sell you stuff cheap, making it possible to spend less time in the store and more time running the shop.

I do agree the buying and selling isn't balanced quite right, most items should have limited stock like the top tier items do. That'd make a better game. Also the buying price should double from the guild and market during a boom. But if you think dungeons are bad for profits, frankly, your simply ignorant, that or too singleminded. Like many businesses a lot of you seem to only think about short term profits without considering the bigger picture. It's a policy that will end up costing at some point in your lives. I'd recommend taking a more lateral view of things in the future, I think doing so would benefit all of you.

[rock.golem | trade.tf]

Of course it's also possible that if you don't unlock those characters they're replaced with generic villagers and it all means nothing and if so....well phuck.