Let's talk about Persian in PvP

[Blastom]

As a dedicated PvP player, I found the game is amazing on offering different strategies to the players, like using giant bomb to stop a siege troll, using skeletons as walking poison trap, bribing a bombing goblin right in enemy base, etc. I generally love the Demon faction.

Something keeps me from playing it in PvP is that Persian is greatly overpowering the other two factions. So when I meet a non-newbie Persian user, I have to switch to Persian to win.

The significant things that made Persian exceptionally strong, in my view, are:
1. Fakir - the carpet mage. There's no unit in Demon and Viking army can counter him cost efficiently. Axe throwers and spear goblins, which supposed to be anti-air, cannot even fairly trade with him. The only counter, soft counter, against him is the Persian stalker currently. Viking may be able stop them with lightning zips, but Demons suffer greatly as them immune to multiple types of magic the demons wielding.

2. Tiger Jump Hero - tiger jumping is fun, but a hero that directly tiger jump across your line of defense. It's not easy to form a defense line against a hero, let along several. I've to say, most of my Persian vs Persian games are all about who gets the tiger jumping hero first. Tiger jumping a solder, a stalker or even a Fakir is ok, as demons can throw little buddies across the line as well. But just think what if the siege troll itself can jump.

Hoping I can dedicated on playing demon in the future without be forced to use another faction.

[BatistaNUU]

Looking to maybe pick this up if I can find friends to pvp with, learn the game.. cool if I add you? Sorry it's kinda OT but yeah.

[Blastom]

Originally posted by Lollipops and landmines:

Looking to maybe pick this up if I can find friends to pvp with, learn the game.. cool if I add you? Sorry it's kinda OT but yeah.

I'm still learning as well. But, I can only play at random times.

[viktorhallo]

havent played online yet, but beaten the single player. i have no problem believing fakir is overpowered.




would some sort of fast mana rune build with axe throwers work just 1-2 axe throwers for map vision and spam lightning bolts to kill the fakirs every time they come out of the base.controlling the map while slowly teching up.



for demons i have no suggestions. since i havent really tried it.



gonna test vikings online i quess, probably alot of fakir spammers.

[Blastom]

Originally posted by viktorhallo:

havent played online yet, but beaten the single player. i have no problem believing fakir is overpowered.

Probably it's only a major problem of Demon Faction, as demon can only use spear goblin to damage them. Besides the only working magic against him is fear, which cannot remove the blue poop he left on the ground from killing goblins. And fear can easily countered by Persian.

Vikings can zip it or sheep him, though not trading axe with him. But for demons there's no other way to deal with them.
or a funny net throwing ability to the naga like in War3?

[sunfire]

100% agree. They should probably remove the Fakir's AoE or make him more expensive

[Same]

Agree to both points, both are pretty unbalanced atm :(

[Oli4]

Agreed :) We're planning on upping the cooldowns for Genie (as well as Helga and the Shield Troll) to 60 seconds. Additionally, you will no longer be able to dash hero units.


This will go live in the coming patch that will probably go live in the coming week.

Fakir is on our radar, but we want to see how things pan out when Persians lose their GenieDash (tm). Currently Vikings have great success countering Fakir with Lightning. Demons have it a bit harder but they have some strategies that are effectiive against Fakir-using Persians (supporting Spearthrowers with Crypts, playing defensively, holding out for Ragnarok)

[Blastom]

Originally posted by Ronimo | Oli:

Agreed :) We're planning on upping the cooldowns for Genie (as well as Helga and the Shield Troll) to 60 seconds. Additionally, you will no longer be able to dash hero units.


This will go live in the coming patch that will probably go live in the coming week.

Fakir is on our radar, but we want to see how things pan out when Persians lose their GenieDash (tm). Currently Vikings have great success countering Fakir with Lightning. Demons have it a bit harder but they have some strategies that are effectiive against Fakir-using Persians (supporting Spearthrowers with Crypts, playing defensively, holding out for Ragnarok)

Thx, Ronimo. I need to try Crypt more. Viking won't have trouble against Fakir as Zip OHK them, which accurately makes them pretty useless in the match.

[100% Wolf Urine]

I think a big part of the problem is the Persian tech tree. Tiger jump is right on the line to the genie. Simply moving either of them to a different branch would help a lot. It would be slower to get going and the Persian is now more open to a rush should he try it.

Not to mention that Fakir is also on the same tech branch as Tiger and Genie!!! The 3 most (over)powerful things in the Persian arsenal are all in the same tiny tech branch. There's no reason to research or purchase anything else.

[Blastom]

Originally posted by MrBody:

I think a big part of the problem is the Persian tech tree. Tiger jump is right on the line to the genie. Simply moving either of them to a different branch would help a lot. It would be slower to get going and the Persian is now more open to a rush should he try it.

Both Persia and Demon has core upgrades put right on the route to the hero. While viking has some inconvenience on getting all core upgrades. But they are pretty strong at late game with a huge magic pool and roasted mutton.

[100% Wolf Urine]

Is the only source of swarma in skirmish matches from casting lightning on a polymorphed sheep?

Yeah, the Vikings have a real tough time with the spread out tech tree.

One thing about Persia, to me it seems like they completely fall apart if you don't cheese the hero/tiger/carpet. How do they get mana? You're just supposed to make do with the passive gain and drops? There's sort of "gain" from the genie wish, but I'm always falling short in games where I handicap myself with no cheese.

[Blastom]

Originally posted by FABIO:

Is the only source of swarma in skirmish matches from casting lightning on a polymorphed sheep?

Try the ones created by Ball of Sheep magic - the ones with no helmet on. One sheep can be converted into 3 kebabs just as in campaign.

Fakir can be bested with Crypts. I was just over focused on pushing fast :)

[IR Octave]

Originally posted by Ronimo | Oli:

Agreed :) We're planning on upping the cooldowns for Genie (as well as Helga and the Shield Troll) to 60 seconds. Additionally, you will no longer be able to dash hero units.


This will go live in the coming patch that will probably go live in the coming week.

Fakir is on our radar, but we want to see how things pan out when Persians lose their GenieDash (tm). Currently Vikings have great success countering Fakir with Lightning. Demons have it a bit harder but they have some strategies that are effectiive against Fakir-using Persians (supporting Spearthrowers with Crypts, playing defensively, holding out for Ragnarok)

I think that you need to make all bosses more expansive to unlock (not to buy) because boss rush is the meta for persians and demons for the best players.

Basically demons win against Persia on big maps because of the boss + skeleton towers and they lose on small maps because of the Tiger Jump + boss rush IMO.

In the Wii U version Persia was S+++++ tier.