Give Control Back to Players ( Technical Mode )

[dbzlucky]

So i've heavily played almost every single arc sys fighter that has come out in the last decade. I put literally hundreds of hours into guilty gear and blazblue on console and only about 40 or into fighterz so far ( by far the lowest ). I don't remember how long i played p4a and the sequel.

I played the open beta for this game today for a few hours and i've definitely got to say my MAJOR gripe with this game is just how much control has been taken away from the player. For example what was before ragna's standing D is now a move you can ONLY do with the B auto combo. Ragna's former 22C is now something you can ONLY do with the B auto combo. I know not everyone cares about combos and thats fine. But a good part of IMMERSION with a fighting game is having control of the character, and this game has stripped a good part of it away.

I have nothing against making the game more accessible with auto combos. But to have the gameplay revolve around them is simply going too far if you ask me. I feel something needs to be done about this. Not only is this currently killing combo variety, its impacting one of the core joys of playing fighting games.

[Gabi]

Originally posted by Ronin Gamer:

Originally posted by Gabi:

Bit of a side track.

To me a lot of the enjoyment comes from using multiple button presses and movements with the stick/dpad combining properly. If some random can just press 1 repeatedly and do a combo equivelant to dsomething much harder then that is a problem. I think the only way it can work at all is if it does less damage/is just not a good combo compared to others.

But even then look at the games that have implemented this and look at the massive player drop of with them (marvel vs capcom infinite, and dragon ball fighter z are two recent examples). I'd wager many players become reliant on the auto combo but when they come across people who know more they are unable to adjust and get better as they have relied on just mashing one button repeatedly and thus just quit playing as they have already peaked with how the game has actively taught them to play (hence the huge drop offs).

I may be wrong just my two cents.

Possible. I think it's probably just the same thing it's always been. People get there ass handed to them, they leave. A lot of people don't understand getting your ass kicked as you learn to play a fighthing game is kind of the process unless you're already pretty good.

But I'm a filthy casual to fighters. I rarely play against other players so my opinion is low tier important. XP

I mostly agree, I just have noticed auto combos seems to make casual players think they are bettter then they are and not learn any real moves on there own, thus making the problem even larger. But yes, I do feel it is part of that same issue, just adding to it.

[Ranmaru Rei]

BlazBlue, UNiB and P4AU works differently. If BlazBlue keep the same way, UNiB and P4AU crowd will want the same thing. UNiB has Chain Shift mechanic, Force Function and some other stuff. P4AU has universal DP, evade, short hop, etc. It will end in broken mess.

[Goofy Oomfie]

Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed too. The more I know about the game the less I'm liking it. Our only choice is to keep playing our games and ignore this one. We are just not the target audience for this.

[dbzlucky]

Originally posted by Shini:

Won't happen.

Can you give a reason why a technical mode won't happen? While i do DEFINITELY appreciate you responding in general... its not much of a response tbh.

Cause as of the moment, all "won't happen" says is you see the point but a technical mode ( that's been a ASW STAPLE ) isn't something you wouldn't even consider and don't care enough to explain why

[dbzlucky]

Originally posted by Ranmaru Rei:

BlazBlue, UNiB and P4AU works differently. If BlazBlue keep the same way, UNiB and P4AU crowd will want the same thing. UNiB has Chain Shift mechanic, Force Function and some other stuff. P4AU has universal DP, evade, short hop, etc. It will end in broken mess.

Dude just STOP, you're still trying to diverge this into a different topic. You're the ONLY one talking about mixing mechanics when that's not even what i'm talking about. Technical mode does not mean mixing game mechanics. I've already told you how they could do technical mode with the D button. so if you're not going to address that directly, i'm not interested. Talking about making individual moves accessible with technical mode like every other ASW game. That's it

[Murasaki]

Originally posted by Shini:

Won't happen.

Can i ask you about game price in eu? (Russia) Really want to buy this game but it comes down to 2 things for me, maybe 3. 1st - price (hope it would be legit price, not like mad NAMCO with their latest releases), 2- friend scared me about instakill combos and that they dont have counterplay. Idk whats this about. 3 - MITSURU! I really need my waifu . Tnx anyway, hope for the answer

[Goofy Oomfie]

Originally posted by Shiki:

Originally posted by Shini:

Won't happen.

Can i ask you about game price in eu? (Russia) Really want to buy this game but it comes down to 2 things for me, maybe 3. 1st - price (hope it would be legit price, not like mad NAMCO with their latest releases), 2- friend scared me about instakill combos and that they dont have counterplay. Idk whats this about. 3 - MITSURU! I really need my waifu :3. Tnx anyway, hope for the answer

Regarding point 3, someone supposedly found a reference to her portrait within the game files so she's going to be DLC:
https://twitter.com/OtherEhm/status/995892256786866176

[dbzlucky]

Originally posted by Herzenswärme:

Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed too. The more I know about the game the less I'm liking it. Our only choice is to keep playing our games and ignore this one. We are just not the target audience for this.

I fear this is the direction ASW games may be going in. I sincerely don't see the reason for flat out REMOVING technical mode. I get wanting to attract more people by making it more beginner friendly. But like i said before, WASN'T THE WHOLE POINT OF HAVING BOTH STYLISH AND TECHNICAL WAS TO PLEASE BOTH SIDES. With this game and the dev's response, so far is f&*k you either play this stylish mode or play something else. There's obviously a demand for technical so i see NO reason to flat out remove it.

I would be ok if they made technical mode soemthing you had to manually turn on and they gave like a massive prompt basically saying it isn't how the game is meant to be played. I WOULD BE OK WITH THAT. At least players have choice in that matter

[匚闩丂丁仨尺]

I only care about them giving us our walking back, cuz forced autodash is a disaster for setup characters like Weiss, Carmine and such...

[Goofy Oomfie]

Originally posted by dbzlucky:

Originally posted by Herzenswärme:

Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed too. The more I know about the game the less I'm liking it. Our only choice is to keep playing our games and ignore this one. We are just not the target audience for this.

I fear this is the direction ASW games may be going in. I sincerely don't see the reason for flat out REMOVING technical mode. I get wanting to attract more people by making it more beginner friendly. But like i said before, WASN'T THE WHOLE POINT OF HAVING BOTH STYLISH AND TECHNICAL WAS TO PLEASE BOTH SIDES. With this game and the dev's response, so far is f&*k you either play this stylish mode or play something else. There's obviously a demand for technical so i see NO reason to flat out remove it.

I would be ok if they made technical mode soemthing you had to manually turn on and they gave like a massive prompt basically saying it isn't how the game is meant to be played. I WOULD BE OK WITH THAT. At least players have choice in that matter

If I had to guess I'd say it's made that way so RWBY and Persona fans that don't play fighting games have it easier to reach an effective level without feeling bad for using the "easy mode" to achieve it. As I said, hardcore fighting game fans are not really the target audience for this game, it's meant for a general audience.
And well... then there's this interview with Mori where he said:
"I feel that controls are something that everybody can understand regardless of nationality. But I just wanted to make it easier and bring down that hurdle.
At the same time, I feel like dexterity … Japanese players may be better at that. In my mind, games like Smash Bros. are where Westerners are much better than Japanese … that kind of game you jam buttons a lot, right?"
Basically he calls western players dumb while trying not to sound like that's what he means, pretty offensive honestly. Here's the link for that: https://venturebeat.com/2018/03/05/how-arc-system-works-is-aiming-for-a-simpler-fighter-with-blazblue-cross-tag-battle/

[Ranmaru Rei]

Originally posted by dbzlucky:

Dude just STOP, you're still trying to diverge this into a different topic. You're the ONLY one talking about mixing mechanics when that's not even what i'm talking about. Technical mode does not mean mixing game mechanics. I've already told you how they could do technical mode with the D button. so if you're not going to address that directly, i'm not interested. Talking about making individual moves accessible with technical mode like every other ASW game. That's it

I can't stop, because looks like I can't understand your position. If... if BlazBlue keep the same, what to do with P4AU and UNiB? Keep the same too? Or keep... the same BB, while butcher P4AU and UNiB?
I'm P4AU and UNiB player more, than BB one. First option turn the game to broken mess as I said. Second option is disrespect to P4AU and UNiB fans, because it makes BB special.

[dbzlucky]

Originally posted by Herzenswärme:

Originally posted by dbzlucky:

I fear this is the direction ASW games may be going in. I sincerely don't see the reason for flat out REMOVING technical mode. I get wanting to attract more people by making it more beginner friendly. But like i said before, WASN'T THE WHOLE POINT OF HAVING BOTH STYLISH AND TECHNICAL WAS TO PLEASE BOTH SIDES. With this game and the dev's response, so far is f&*k you either play this stylish mode or play something else. There's obviously a demand for technical so i see NO reason to flat out remove it.

I would be ok if they made technical mode soemthing you had to manually turn on and they gave like a massive prompt basically saying it isn't how the game is meant to be played. I WOULD BE OK WITH THAT. At least players have choice in that matter

If I had to guess I'd say it's made that way so RWBY and Persona fans that don't play fighting games have it easier to reach an effective level without feeling bad for using the "easy mode" to achieve it. As I said, hardcore fighting game fans are not really the target audience for this game, it's meant for a general audience.
And well... then there's this interview with Mori where he said:
"I feel that controls are something that everybody can understand regardless of nationality. But I just wanted to make it easier and bring down that hurdle.
At the same time, I feel like dexterity … Japanese players may be better at that. In my mind, games like Smash Bros. are where Westerners are much better than Japanese … that kind of game you jam buttons a lot, right?"
Basically he calls western players dumb while trying not to sound like that's what he measns, pretty offensive honestly. Here's the link for that: https://venturebeat.com/2018/03/05/how-arc-system-works-is-aiming-for-a-simpler-fighter-with-blazblue-cross-tag-battle/

I get that and already know about that interview. But there's still no justification for flat out REMOVING technical mode. How does a company go from having a good solution already implemented in their games, to eh eff those guys take it out. There's still no justification here, as i said i see no reason why they didn't make it something you just have to manually turn on and give a "warning" message since they want this to be a casual game.

I appreciate that they're trying to bring more people in and make it more accessible. Belive me the current system would work just fine for characters i don't plan on spending a alot of time with, and just want to hop in and play. But once again that was the whole purpose of stylish mode in the previous ASW fighters. Not to just REPLACE technical mode.

I'm saying it now, THIS is what will hurt if not kill the lifespan of this game. After you get past the initial shock of hory crap i have x/y character fighting together against these characters, it start to feel sort of button mashy

[dbzlucky]

Originally posted by Ranmaru Rei:

Originally posted by dbzlucky:

Dude just STOP, you're still trying to diverge this into a different topic. You're the ONLY one talking about mixing mechanics when that's not even what i'm talking about. Technical mode does not mean mixing game mechanics. I've already told you how they could do technical mode with the D button. so if you're not going to address that directly, i'm not interested. Talking about making individual moves accessible with technical mode like every other ASW game. That's it

I can't stop, because looks like I can't understand your position. If... if BlazBlue keep the same, what to do with P4AU and UNiB? Keep the same too? Or keep... the same BB, while butcher P4AU and UNiB?
I'm P4AU and UNiB player more, than BB one. First option turn the game to broken mess as I said. Second option is disrespect to P4AU and UNiB fans, because it makes BB special.

Mapping special moves to the D button would make the game broken? Lmao stfu blocked, i'm not dealing with a white knight. Not even talking about mulitiple options, just one. Making individual moves available

[Goofy Oomfie]

Originally posted by dbzlucky:

Originally posted by Herzenswärme:

If I had to guess I'd say it's made that way so RWBY and Persona fans that don't play fighting games have it easier to reach an effective level without feeling bad for using the "easy mode" to achieve it. As I said, hardcore fighting game fans are not really the target audience for this game, it's meant for a general audience.
And well... then there's this interview with Mori where he said:
"I feel that controls are something that everybody can understand regardless of nationality. But I just wanted to make it easier and bring down that hurdle.
At the same time, I feel like dexterity … Japanese players may be better at that. In my mind, games like Smash Bros. are where Westerners are much better than Japanese … that kind of game you jam buttons a lot, right?"
Basically he calls western players dumb while trying not to sound like that's what he measns, pretty offensive honestly. Here's the link for that: https://venturebeat.com/2018/03/05/how-arc-system-works-is-aiming-for-a-simpler-fighter-with-blazblue-cross-tag-battle/

I get that and already know about that interview. But there's still no justification for flat out REMOVING technical mode. How does a company go from having a good solution already implemented in their games, to eh eff those guys take it out. There's still no justification here, as i said i see no reason why they didn't make it something you just have to manually turn on and give a "warning" message since they want this to be a casual game.

I appreciate that they're trying to bring more people in and make it more accessible. Belive me the current system would work just fine for characters i don't plan on spending a alot of time with, and just want to hop in and play. But once again that was the whole purpose of stylish mode in the previous ASW fighters. Not to just REPLACE technical mode.

I'm saying it now, THIS is what will hurt if not kill the lifespan of this game. After you get past the initial shock of hory crap i have x/y character fighting together against these characters, it start to feel sort of button mashy

I'm not justifying it, I don't like the decision at all. I'm just trying to rationalize it and my only guess is that when you let players choose between "Stylish" and "Technical" it will make players that stick to "Stylish" feel bad about themselves. It's like training wheels, you give them the option to have it easier but nobody wants to be the one that goes with training wheels to the park.

[dbzlucky]

Originally posted by Herzenswärme:

Originally posted by dbzlucky:

I get that and already know about that interview. But there's still no justification for flat out REMOVING technical mode. How does a company go from having a good solution already implemented in their games, to eh eff those guys take it out. There's still no justification here, as i said i see no reason why they didn't make it something you just have to manually turn on and give a "warning" message since they want this to be a casual game.

I appreciate that they're trying to bring more people in and make it more accessible. Belive me the current system would work just fine for characters i don't plan on spending a alot of time with, and just want to hop in and play. But once again that was the whole purpose of stylish mode in the previous ASW fighters. Not to just REPLACE technical mode.

I'm saying it now, THIS is what will hurt if not kill the lifespan of this game. After you get past the initial shock of hory crap i have x/y character fighting together against these characters, it start to feel sort of button mashy

I'm not justifying it, I don't like the decision at all. I'm just trying to rationalize it and my only guess is that when you let players choose between "Stylish" and "Technical" it will make players that stick to "Stylish" feel bad about themselves. It's like training wheels, you give them the option to have it easier but nobody wants to be the one that goes with training wheels to the park.

I can see that logic, but you're forgetting room options would let you decide wether stylish mode would be available or not. No need to feel bad when you're in a room where everyone uses it or its accepted.

Edit: It's also not reason enough to alienate the players that stick around have the initial hype dies down. Those are the players that are 9 times out of 10 using technical mode