Kind of annoyed at the current state of the tutorial.

[Verusan]

So the way the tutorial plays out, it starts you off with some money, shows you how to spend it and what you can spend money on... but then over the course of it, it gives you additional money than what is available in the beginning. So starting with the tutorial on ends up giving me a better start to my run.

I really don't want to start with the tutorial every single time, but it just feels like a bad idea to do that when I get additional resources if I start with it.

[Velorien]

The additional resources aren't that big, though, on the scale of 4-5 coins? By Day 2, that kind of difference will vanish into your income from archers and tree-cutting.

[Verusan]

Originally posted by Velorien:

The additional resources aren't that big, though, on the scale of 4-5 coins? By Day 2, that kind of difference will vanish into your income from archers and tree-cutting.

4-5 coins is kind of big at the start. It lets me start with tree cutting and gives me two additional vagrants at the beginning, so by day 2 I can get even more people.

I'm sure it's not that big of a difference, but it still feels like I am needlessly nerfing myself if I start a run without the tutorial on.

[Velorien]

I do completely understand what you mean, but on balance, the tutorial is just too long and annoying for that amount of money. In addition, the time you waste following instructions means suboptimal play on the first day. For example, I'm accustomed to starting the game by riding *away* from the camp at the start of the game to explore and grab chests, taking advantage of the fact that it's only dawn and I'm already in the woods. If I do the tutorial instead, I spend half the day doing things that can be done at any time (including building a single wall, which is just silly).

[Verusan]

Originally posted by Velorien:

I do completely understand what you mean, but on balance, the tutorial is just too long and annoying for that amount of money. In addition, the time you waste following instructions means suboptimal play on the first day. For example, I'm accustomed to starting the game by riding *away* from the camp at the start of the game to explore and grab chests, taking advantage of the fact that it's only dawn and I'm already in the woods. If I do the tutorial instead, I spend half the day doing things that can be done at any time (including building a single wall, which is just silly).

Hmm, I hadn't considered starting to explore as the first thing. Not sure if I will, since I prefer to get started with setting up the camp before I go out and explore.

[Velorien]

Originally posted by Verusan:

Originally posted by Velorien:

I do completely understand what you mean, but on balance, the tutorial is just too long and annoying for that amount of money. In addition, the time you waste following instructions means suboptimal play on the first day. For example, I'm accustomed to starting the game by riding *away* from the camp at the start of the game to explore and grab chests, taking advantage of the fact that it's only dawn and I'm already in the woods. If I do the tutorial instead, I spend half the day doing things that can be done at any time (including building a single wall, which is just silly).

Hmm, I hadn't considered starting to explore as the first thing. Not sure if I will, since I prefer to get started with setting up the camp before I go out and explore.

I admit it's counterintuitive, and it does have the disadvantage that you might not have time to upgrade your camp far enough to get free walls before the first greed attack. On the other hand, basic walls only cost a coin each anyway, and those coin chests really smooth the early game.

[Verusan]

Originally posted by Velorien:

Originally posted by Verusan:

Hmm, I hadn't considered starting to explore as the first thing. Not sure if I will, since I prefer to get started with setting up the camp before I go out and explore.

I admit it's counterintuitive, and it does have the disadvantage that you might not have time to upgrade your camp far enough to get free walls before the first greed attack. On the other hand, basic walls only cost a coin each anyway, and those coin chests really smooth the early game.

Well, I might consider doing that in the future. Probably gonna give me some amount of anxiety to not have my walls up early, but the early greed waves tend to be very small anyway. It usually pays to collect those chests and just pay off the 2-3 greed enemies that come initially.

[Rhasmoth]

By exploring left and right, paying off the greed my first night, I can leave Island One by Day Two. That said, I'm really here because I'm tired of the tutorial "skipping" glitching out on me. I want to start up my game and play it the way I want, and -if I'm lucky- the "Skip" option will appear, and even then, half or more of the time I press down to skip, start running off into the distance, I find I can't do anything because the tutorial is still half-active. It's allowing me to move beyond the standard "tutorial boundaries," but when I find a coin chest, I can't drop any money to hire the beggars on my way through. I'm trying to optimize my playthrough, having my fun by trying to make everything as efficient as I can. But I can't do that when almost every restart, I have to start the game, go through the tutorial, restart the campaign, and hope the tutorial actually recognizes I can skip it again.

[procnessil]

Isn't it that time is frozen before you finish the tutorial, so you aren't really wasting any time?

Also, has it ever happened to anyone that during tutorial a coin fell from the purse to the water, basically making it impossible to finish tutorial? It happens randomly to me throughout the game as well (sometimes with gems) - not sure why. I suspect it has something to do with mount getting tired

[Velorien]

Originally posted by Blaquestone:

By exploring left and right, paying off the greed my first night, I can leave Island One by Day Two.

I'm curious about this. Would you mind elaborating on how this works and to what extent it's worth it?

Originally posted by procnessil:

Also, has it ever happened to anyone that during tutorial a coin fell from the purse to the water, basically making it impossible to finish tutorial? It happens randomly to me throughout the game as well (sometimes with gems) - not sure why. I suspect it has something to do with mount getting tired

This has happened to me, but the tutorial always made sure I had enough coins, actually dropping more into my pouch as necessary. If yours didn't, it might be a bug.

In general, coins and gems can drop when you pick them up while your pouch is full, because they're physics objects that dislodge each other. Occasionally, picking up a coin will even cause you to lose ones already in the pouch. If you lose coins/gems for no reason, that's a bug.

[procnessil]

nah, that was the only coin in the pouch. Had this happen randomly throughout the game - running through forest, bag half empty and puff, a coin or a gem drops out of it (gems weren't stuck at the top of the bag)

[Velorien]

Originally posted by procnessil:

nah, that was the only coin in the pouch. Had this happen randomly throughout the game - running through forest, bag half empty and puff, a coin or a gem drops out of it (gems weren't stuck at the top of the bag)

It's depressing how buggy this game is so long after launch. That said, personally I've never had a single bug I can remember, so maybe it's a PC configuration thing, and it's hard for an indie company to test every possible combination of factors.

[procnessil]

Hmm thought it's some feature where you have to be careful not to overburden the horse or whatever. Still, not a big issue

[Rhasmoth]

Originally posted by procnessil:

Isn't it that time is frozen before you finish the tutorial, so you aren't really wasting any time?

It's not about wasting game time. It's about wasting -my- time. Actually, if you really, really want to, all you have to do in the tutorial is click to open split-screen, cancel it real quick, and for a split-second you can drop coins. It's not enough to build much, but you can clear an entire island of trees, so long as you can get one builder going. Time may pass, but days don't actually tally up, so even though eventually some Greed spawn, you're fine. Not to mention, if you empty your pouch, then walk to part of the tutorial, they'll fill your bag with as much as that section requires, so you've got infinite money to pile up and pay the pittance of Greed to just go away. There's plenty of ways to cheese the system, but I just want to be able to enter my game and play, without having to go through the same glitched tutorial juggling...

Originally posted by Velorien:

I'm curious about this. Would you mind elaborating on how this works and to what extent it's worth it?

I have no idea how worth it it is in the long run. I don't watch speedruns, nor do I much enjoy watching YouTube play-throughs. I can't even stand it on more action-based games, so imagining watching someone else play Kingdom sounds like a nightmare lmao. But, the quicker I get to island four, the quicker I get iron, the quicker I can go back and take my time dominating each island. I haven't yet beaten the game, and that's because I've always tried to go through with a single monarch and don't binge the game. I will say though, that it's incredibly satisfying to get to island two with one builder and no investment on island one lmao.

[Velorien]

Originally posted by Blaquestone:

Originally posted by procnessil:

Isn't it that time is frozen before you finish the tutorial, so you aren't really wasting any time?

Not to mention, if you empty your pouch, then walk to part of the tutorial, they'll fill your bag with as much as that section requires, so you've got infinite money to pile up and pay the pittance of Greed to just go away.

In Norse Lands at least, that won't work. The game only lets you drop coins on the things the tutorial wants.

[Rhasmoth]

Originally posted by Velorien:

Originally posted by Blaquestone:

Not to mention, if you empty your pouch, then walk to part of the tutorial, they'll fill your bag with as much as that section requires, so you've got infinite money to pile up and pay the pittance of Greed to just go away.

In Norse Lands at least, that won't work. The game only lets you drop coins on the things the tutorial wants.

EDIT: Ah, maybe you're right. I had only tested the dropping of coins, not spending on things the last time I tried. Still, infinite money still works.