Mod Support

[Lufian]

So will EG2 ever get mod support?

[Lü Bu]

Originally posted by Quarren King of Q:

paradox would have been worse. unfinished. then contstantly meddling with the game because someone didnt play the game they wanted you to. so they patch out features over time, then take mods resell them to you but lazy versions ofthe mods. and then patch the base game so it becomes almost unplayable without the mod. lol IE stellaris HOI 4, we be lucky to have something functional. let alone any optimization without any cheating ai if they can figure out how those work XD

While paradox games have tons of problems they are at least capable of making engaging strategy games. Thats really all i wanted from EG2.

[flying diomedea]

Originally posted by Lü Bu:

While paradox games have tons of problems they are at least capable of making engaging strategy games. Thats really all i wanted from EG2.

Let me add my experience and conclusion about Paradox. I bought and have played a large number of Paradox products, and can convene with you that they excel at making engaging Strategic games (e.g. CK 2, EU 3, EU 4, HOI 3, HOI 4, Victoria 2, most of them fully expanded). Please note all the above share the same proven game engine (Clausewitz), it shows the game mechanics are somewhat similar.

However, any game published by Paradox but developed under a different engine/by a different studio (not internal) has failed to meet my hopes (Supreme Ruler, Ship Simulator, Prison Architect).

I wish to take the last (Prison Architect, "PA" for short) as a reference of what could be the case with Evil Genius. PA was an indie game (which I bought in early access) and all was neat and interesting until it was sold to Paradox. Then, Paradox started producing and selling all sorts of DLCs for PA. WIth each new DLC, more bugs were introduced, and never corrected. PA now barely works, a number of shortcomings that were hardly evident in the original game are now in plain sight. The original PA community tried all they could (reporting bugs, proposing improvements) but Paradox went deaf.

As with all of their other games, Paradox business model is to entice gamers to keep buying every possible DLC they produce. Keeping games interesting adding something new is at most a bonus when it happens.

[👁]

It really sucks that the game has no mod support, they've already abandoned development on it, but there were a lot of things modders could have done.

I really would have liked to have seen mods by fans of the original game changing the sequel to be more like the first one.

[The Grimm Reefer]

well. i mean. I've been here since before release, they never promised any more than they what they delivered. There was a clear road map from day one, we reached it, support ended. Dont get me wrong I'd love some mod support too, but some things just don't happen. Some games just aren't set with the goal of new content for years. It's not dragon ball xenoverse lol.

[FDR'sThinkTank]

You have three types of view points when it comes to allowing for mods/cultivating a modding community.

The First Viewpoint is the EA Viewpoint: Mods cut into profits. They will, when they can, disallow for mods in the games they make because they intend to have their employees make as much content for the game as possible and grasp every bit of profit they can. They are large enough to have multiple programming teams working around the clock on different things... so for some gamers it's great because mods can be a confusing mess that make it hard to play the game with your friends, particularly less savvy ones.

The Second Viewpoint is the IP management Viewpoint: Mods open up the product to unwanted content and controversy. This is not the motivation of a company like EA, who is big enough that they can even make controversy work in their favor, but also don't care about making a balanced product or dealing with customers that care about gameplay. It is the motivation of a company that wants to work with platforms like Twitch, YouTube, and other Social Media to help market the product... but keep it tame enough that it won't offend anyone and can get the most viral marketing. The end goal is to build the franchise up to the point where it's got a self sustaining audience and can potentially be flipped to a company like EA if it becomes big enough, and that profit can be reinvested in other projects that the developers care more personally about. This is like Rebellion, they really REALLY love their Sniper Elite game... but their enthusiasm for this game never got to grow before it was strangled by people who felt the product was beyond hope... and couldn't just let go.

The Third Viewpoint is that Mods are helpful to growing a games content with little reinvestment and could potentially be repurposed in future sequels as paid DLCs. Only companies like Bethesda, who are confident in their sequels and ability to sell them, will go this path. When the company no longer feels like it can easily sell sequels, it will slowly move away from allowing mods and simply try to reproduce those mods as part of their future games and DLC. This... doesn't always work.

Of course, a company could make a game, allow it to have mods, and never intend to make a sequel... so it doesn't really care about the "lost" profits.... but we have to be realistic about the sorts of companies that could afford an IP like Evil Genius and would bother to invest in it. They are only going to do it when they can sue to keep competition away from making anything like the IP.... or when the style of game is so proven and tried and true (Like First Person Shooters) that they don't have to worry about their product not selling because it's compared to everything better than it and never get's it's own fanbase strong enough to sustain it... (such as Battleborn.)

I am sure if Rebellion saw more success with this game, they would have already planned and published more content for it... but the programming team is probably burned out and the investors are hesitant to go down this path again. They are NOT an indie studio and they have to answer to market forces. If Derek Smart made this game, he would keep working on it long after most people forgot about it, for instance. For some people, that's HIGHLY appealing. Frankly, I kind of wish he had been the man to get this IP. Rebellion had potential with it, but they needed to get to at least a second season of content to really push past the doubt. This game might become a cult classic on it's own one day..... I really feel like the first season of content got it to a good starting point. Yes, it has weaknesses in comparison to the original game.... but it also has many strengths by comparison. The potential could have been there.

[Oemoemoepoep]

bunch of "interesting" things....

The existence of mods (or lack thereof) is a pretty decent indicator for how much ppl care for the game. Modding support by the developer is at best a bonus. Players made mods for console ports like Sekiro, despite it having no mod support. Bethesda games like Elder Scrolls/Fallout/Starfield have mods way before the official mod support starts/is released, same for Total War.

Mods opening the IP to unwanted content or controversy is a new one. Fallout 3 and 4 have mods that allow you to quite literally nuke civilian areas (including the children) with the fatman .... where is the big controversy ? Biggest controversies with Fallout were things like Japan being not amused about a portable nuke launcher being called Fatman (and that one is on Bethesda). X4 has a complete Star Wars mod ... neither Lucas nor Disney give a lick. Thousands of games have mods, that are either very "arguable" by design or make extensive use of copyrighted content / IP's ..... not a single of the developers/publishers of the game had to take responsibility for it in any way.

EG2 is pretty much another copy of the ages old Dungeon Keeper. And I am willing to say that Dungeon Keeper had a better minion management and base building UI/Controls. Add in only 4 maps, only 4 characters and a completely fixed Mission chain ... ya, this game has a lot of room for support, growth and/or improvement (be it official or mod). "We had a roadmap. We had to crunch a bit and managed to deliver on time what was on our roadmap. So we did a great job." is a rather fancy way of saying "We hurried to get it out on the set date. Then sold a season pass and some minor DLC to milk it a bit before completely abandoning it in favor of something else"

I waited long enough to get it for a very reasonable price...and I am very happy that I only paid that little...

[Glory]

Originally posted by Oemoemoepoep:

bunch of "interesting" things....

The existence of mods (or lack thereof) is a pretty decent indicator for how much ppl care for the game. Modding support by the developer is at best a bonus. Players made mods for console ports like Sekiro, despite it having no mod support. Bethesda games like Elder Scrolls/Fallout/Starfield have mods way before the official mod support starts/is released, same for Total War.

Mods opening the IP to unwanted content or controversy is a new one. Fallout 3 and 4 have mods that allow you to quite literally nuke civilian areas (including the children) with the fatman .... where is the big controversy ? Biggest controversies with Fallout were things like Japan being not amused about a portable nuke launcher being called Fatman (and that one is on Bethesda). X4 has a complete Star Wars mod ... neither Lucas nor Disney give a lick. Thousands of games have mods, that are either very "arguable" by design or make extensive use of copyrighted content / IP's ..... not a single of the developers/publishers of the game had to take responsibility for it in any way.

EG2 is pretty much another copy of the ages old Dungeon Keeper. And I am willing to say that Dungeon Keeper had a better minion management and base building UI/Controls. Add in only 4 maps, only 4 characters and a completely fixed Mission chain ... ya, this game has a lot of room for support, growth and/or improvement (be it official or mod). "We had a roadmap. We had to crunch a bit and managed to deliver on time what was on our roadmap. So we did a great job." is a rather fancy way of saying "We hurried to get it out on the set date. Then sold a season pass and some minor DLC to milk it a bit before completely abandoning it in favor of something else"

I waited long enough to get it for a very reasonable price...and I am very happy that I only paid that little...

Problem is that Rebellion games are notoriously hard to mod, stacking that with how they did balancing for this game makes it a nightmare to not softlock.

Say you wanted infinite power. There are at least 3 missions that softlock you due to needing to hit a set power threshhold. Same for gold or other qualifications for side or main quests.

So you need a more indepth solution than ini file editing which is not possible due to Rebellions proprietary engine having no mod tools or really any way to support it. Sniper Elite, which uses the same engine, has no meaningful mods on Nexus for the entire series.

This is by design because the Rebellion DLC and monetization model for any title they release makes modding the game counterproductive for the obligatory 15 DLC packs and overpriced season passes always tacked onto their games.

It sucks but its how they do their business, and I think it hurts them in the long run by refusing to bend the knee on anything regarding micro-transactions.

[Pinkeh]

I remember modding the first game by unpacking some of the game files and overriding the default stats for minions and henchmen.

[BlackRedDead]

Originally posted by 1stReaper.:

Originally posted by Caz:

These days, you can judge a lot of games by their modding community. As in, if it doesn't have one, that's a bad sign.

what lmfao ?
just because a game doesn't have mods doesn't make it a bad thing

having mods is a nice thing but its not a do or die kind of thing

depends, if the game is great & expendable enough on it's own yea, modding support is optional then - but if the game lacks features and/or content, modding support can keep it alive regardless of the capabilities of the dev's - Space Engineers is a Prime example for that, especially as it has a direct competitor that is objectively a far better game, but sadly lacks mod support - and you can see that directly reflected in the playerbase! (the game is Empyrion - galactic survival)

i really hope EG2 will get some sort of modsupport (ideally official, but i take what i can get.), there's already so many ideas...^^