Balancing?

[CelsiuZ]

How can 6-7 J.A.W.S soldiers wipe out 300 minions, Eli, Pyro and Jubei?
20 guards, 20 Mercs, 4 hitmen, all armed with SMG's and pistols.
Also upgraded vitality.

Was this game not balance tested?

[MaceX]

It depends on difficulty level, soldier level, and some of your base layout. Unless your minions attack together, they can get wiped out.

[CelsiuZ]

I play on normal, every single soldier has more health than my fully upgraded henchmen.

The enemy has smg's and RPG's, so it does not matter where the fight takes place anymore.

If all of my minions attack in a group, they get RPG stun locked, if they don't they get picked off one by one.

My base layout can probably "be better", but I did build it so that it is advantageous to me not the enemy.

[Peter Griffin]

There's no question that those guys are overpowered, I too struggle dealing with them, popping up in the middle of my base as they do. Even giving standing orders for them to be distracted doesn't work because abominations immediately attack them. I'm at the point of abandoning this playthrough as Polar on hard.

[CelsiuZ]

It's my 5th play-through that I've abandoned in "late-game" due to balancing annoyances.

I really don't mind a challenge, but it isn't a challenge when 300 minions on normal get wiped every 3 minutes on the dot due to HAMMER, JAWS, etc. just taking their turns to hammer my base into the ground.

I feel you peter :c

[Peter Griffin]

I just wish I'd known about those guys before building my workshop, it was pure luck that it happened to be right between two sanctums so my henchmen at least could respond quickly as long as they stay put once they've recovered.

[MaceX]

Normally it isn't too bad if you filter everything through an armory full of troops. Soldiers don't pop up in the middle of your base. Which Island are you using?

[Peter Griffin]

Originally posted by MaceX:

Normally it isn't too bad if you filter everything through an armory full of troops. Soldiers don't pop up in the middle of your base. Which Island are you using?

Polar's Island. Which proves to be a disadvantage because there are three entrances where enemies can get in, not including sub pens.

[eRe4s3r]

Originally posted by Peter Griffin:

Originally posted by MaceX:

Normally it isn't too bad if you filter everything through an armory full of troops. Soldiers don't pop up in the middle of your base. Which Island are you using?

Polar's Island. Which proves to be a disadvantage because there are three entrances where enemies can get in, not including sub pens.

There is exactly 1 entrance if you wall everything off properly. And enough space to route sub-pens into the guard room at the entrance (obviously no Casino)

Optimally you have it set so that the sub-pens lead directly into the guard room (looking frontally at the entrance, guard room and to the right sub-pens and only there, with tons of freeze turrets cameras and make sure the connection from the outside also routes into the guard room and not your base.

Now your guard room is the entrance area, and you can set everything to kill and forget about the problem entirely ;p

[MaceX]

Originally posted by Peter Griffin:

Originally posted by MaceX:

Normally it isn't too bad if you filter everything through an armory full of troops. Soldiers don't pop up in the middle of your base. Which Island are you using?

Polar's Island. Which proves to be a disadvantage because there are three entrances where enemies can get in, not including sub pens.

For Polar, I have really only saw them come through Sub pens, the the Boat Entrance, and the front door. For the boat entrance, you can simply dig from the casino to it then close of the side to your lair. As for Sub Pens, have 2 workshops. 1 for Research and 1 for sub pens. Then link the sub pens through your Armory. It is funny that you can put sub pens on the second floor or third. So if you don't have room just put them on a different floor then put the stairs next to the armory.

Some say that they can come in through the helipad. I never saw it. But to be safe, I just put a camera connected the section with a portal.

[Peter Griffin]

Originally posted by MaceX:

Originally posted by Peter Griffin:

Polar's Island. Which proves to be a disadvantage because there are three entrances where enemies can get in, not including sub pens.

For Polar, I have really only saw them come through Sub pens, the the Boat Entrance, and the front door. For the boat entrance, you can simply dig from the casino to it then close of the side to your lair. As for Sub Pens, have 2 workshops. 1 for Research and 1 for sub pens. Then link the sub pens through your Armory. It is funny that you can put sub pens on the second floor or third. So if you don't have room just put them on a different floor then put the stairs next to the armory.

Some say that they can come in through the helipad. I never saw it. But to be safe, I just put a camera connected the section with a portal.

The boat entrance is where the lion's share of investigators and all of the soldiers arrive and I have an armoury directly opposite the door, with an adjacent sanctum so my henchmen can get there quickly and the workshop directly adjoining that, with camera coverage meaning muscle guys get there quickly. Most of the time they can distract one-on-one and lead them outside but if just one starts shooting then they all pile in. Do you mean the corridor on the other side of the boat entrance that leads into a tunnel? If I connect that to the casino would the agents follow it?

Normal groups don't come via the helipad, but superagent groups can. I'm currently at the point in my game when I can do the first two of each agent mission, I've completed 4 out of the 7 so far.

For some reason I was under the impression that the sub pens would only be placed in the boat entrance, what with that being where the water is but apparently they can go anywhere...

EDIT: Connecting the lower boat entrance to the cover operation let me wall off the upper one so the soldiers now have to follow a long maze of corridors just to get as far as the cover. In fact, I could narrow the corridors and double how far they have to travel! :D

EDIT 2: By making the corridor from the boat entrance the bare minimum of 2 tiles wide and snaking back and fourth the soldiers and investigators take forever just to get as far as the casino. Interestingly, they first try the door to the upper area but when it opens they just find a bare wall so they then have to take the long way. Perhaps I should slow them even more by placing a series of doors.

[MaceX]

Originally posted by Peter Griffin:

Originally posted by MaceX:

For Polar, I have really only saw them come through Sub pens, the the Boat Entrance, and the front door. For the boat entrance, you can simply dig from the casino to it then close of the side to your lair. As for Sub Pens, have 2 workshops. 1 for Research and 1 for sub pens. Then link the sub pens through your Armory. It is funny that you can put sub pens on the second floor or third. So if you don't have room just put them on a different floor then put the stairs next to the armory.

Some say that they can come in through the helipad. I never saw it. But to be safe, I just put a camera connected the section with a portal.

The boat entrance is where the lion's share of investigators and all of the soldiers arrive and I have an armoury directly opposite the door, with an adjacent sanctum so my henchmen can get there quickly and the workshop directly adjoining that, with camera coverage meaning muscle guys get there quickly. Most of the time they can distract one-on-one and lead them outside but if just one starts shooting then they all pile in. Do you mean the corridor on the other side of the boat entrance that leads into a tunnel? If I connect that to the casino would the agents follow it?

Normal groups don't come via the helipad, but superagent groups can. I'm currently at the point in my game when I can do the first two of each agent mission, I've completed 4 out of the 7 so far.

For some reason I was under the impression that the sub pens would only be placed in the boat entrance, what with that being where the water is but apparently they can go anywhere...

EDIT: Connecting the lower boat entrance to the cover operation let me wall off the upper one so the soldiers now have to follow a long maze of corridors just to get as far as the cover. In fact, I could narrow the corridors and double how far they have to travel! :D

EDIT 2: By making the corridor from the boat entrance the bare minimum of 2 tiles wide and snaking back and fourth the soldiers and investigators take forever just to get as far as the casino. Interestingly, they first try the door to the upper area but when it opens they just find a bare wall so they then have to take the long way. Perhaps I should slow them even more by placing a series of doors.

When you say Corridor, are you talking the hallway type or just a long casino maze? If you are talking a casino maze, you can add doors to slow them down. I can normally have Fugu kill a whole soldier squad by poisoning them as they won't attack her while in the casino. You just need to remember to set the doors to level 3 since they default to 1.

If you are meaning Hallway Corridor, I would add traps. Doors will slow them down, but traps can too as well as weaken them.

[Peter Griffin]

Originally posted by MaceX:

Originally posted by Peter Griffin:

The boat entrance is where the lion's share of investigators and all of the soldiers arrive and I have an armoury directly opposite the door, with an adjacent sanctum so my henchmen can get there quickly and the workshop directly adjoining that, with camera coverage meaning muscle guys get there quickly. Most of the time they can distract one-on-one and lead them outside but if just one starts shooting then they all pile in. Do you mean the corridor on the other side of the boat entrance that leads into a tunnel? If I connect that to the casino would the agents follow it?

Normal groups don't come via the helipad, but superagent groups can. I'm currently at the point in my game when I can do the first two of each agent mission, I've completed 4 out of the 7 so far.

For some reason I was under the impression that the sub pens would only be placed in the boat entrance, what with that being where the water is but apparently they can go anywhere...

EDIT: Connecting the lower boat entrance to the cover operation let me wall off the upper one so the soldiers now have to follow a long maze of corridors just to get as far as the cover. In fact, I could narrow the corridors and double how far they have to travel! :D

EDIT 2: By making the corridor from the boat entrance the bare minimum of 2 tiles wide and snaking back and fourth the soldiers and investigators take forever just to get as far as the casino. Interestingly, they first try the door to the upper area but when it opens they just find a bare wall so they then have to take the long way. Perhaps I should slow them even more by placing a series of doors.

When you say Corridor, are you talking the hallway type or just a long casino maze? If you are talking a casino maze, you can add doors to slow them down. I can normally have Fugu kill a whole soldier squad by poisoning them as they won't attack her while in the casino. You just need to remember to set the doors to level 3 since they default to 1.

If you are meaning Hallway Corridor, I would add traps. Doors will slow them down, but traps can too as well as weaken them.

The 2-tile wide hallway type that switches back and fourth the entire way from the boat entrance to the casino. I could place a bunch of barriers and stuff so they have to then go back and fourth once they reach the casino itself, I have a bunch of slot machines in their path at the moment. I've heard that traps are pretty worthless at stopping soldiers though I haven't tried them myself. The turrets suck though because they take forever to reload since minions have to go all the way to the helipad to fetch the ammo. Now you'd think if the ammo was kept anywhere it would be in the armoury.

EDIT: That's twice now that the soldiers upon reaching the door at the end of the corridor leading to the casino have turned around and gone back up the corridor to check out the ice cave near the beginning before turning round again to return to the casino.

[MaceX]

I have seen them turn around too. They seem to want to search your whole casino before going into your lair. It really depends on how you set you traps up for soldier. The can still be softened up by health draining ones. Like I said, if it is long enough you can have Fugu poison them and normally kill them if you Gas bomb them at doors. You just need to make sure to recharge her after the wave.

[Lula O Honesto]

Sometimes i think i have a buggy copy of the game. I don't know how people manage to have their base wiped

[DerFinneAT]

Originally posted by Mewston Churchill:

Sometimes i think i have a buggy copy of the game. I don't know how people manage to have their base wiped

I guess you have to do at leat 2 things:
Let your heat spiral out of control
Build your enemy-contact area in a way, that ensures, that enemy agents can engage all at once, but your muscles can reach it only one at a time with a clue of seconds apart.

Bonus points, if you add traps behind the contact - area and make sure your own minions are as much smart-depleted as possible, when they have to cross through them.