Is upgrading Criminal Networks actually a good idea?

[Socrates Jackson]

It seemed like it at first. More passive money, a bigger heat threshold, better schemes. Hurray!

But now my scheme to drop heat costs not only the usual 10k, but also 20 intel. This is objectively worse, and is crippling me to the point that I've had to cut back my empire, and I have yet to see a single 'better' scheme. Will this balance out on level 3 and 4? Cause so far, it seems like Network level 1 is where it's at.

Sidenote, new to EG, so I'm probably missing something really simple.

[Tsulan]

On rank 3 it costs 20 intel and 250k gold to reduce the heat by 150 points.
But its still worth it to upgrade the network. Since you can get 700k gold from long shemes.
If the heat goes to high, you just let it go to lockdown and prepare your casino. You´ll get better investigators, but those usually never cross the door to the lair.

[C4Warr10r]

They are good once you have the staff and the computers. You need WAY more computers than signal relays early-game. Just get enough to cover one continent and let the intel build up to near max. Then you upgrade, and then you start the real money-maker schemes.

The orange ones are good and faster, but the green ones are where you really make bank. I was confused by them at first too; "An hour? Are you effing with me, game?" But no, it's not as your minions are immune to damage the whole time that's going on and they make a LOT of money.

Now here's the trick - never finish any of those schemes. Cancel them RIGHT before they're completed. You get 25% of the intel cost back, and you still got almost all the money. Same thing for the heat-reduction schemes. NEVER finish them. Cancel them at 90-something percent and you get a refund.

You do this for two reasons. First, it keeps super-agents away and you still get almost all the benefits with a 25% refund. It might as well just be a 25%-off coupon. Second, it keeps minions from being captured and interrogated, at which point you get agents.

Personally, I prefer to use the time and funds to build a LOT of vault space, preferably within sight of guard posts. You're going to need a bunch until late-game, when you have better ways to store money. Half a million is enough, but it doesn't fit anywhere easily.

[Sovereign246]

If you have enough you can actually run the base entirely off of passive income.

[kasnavada]

Originally posted by Socrates Jackson:

It seemed like it at first. More passive money, a bigger heat threshold, better schemes. Hurray!

But now my scheme to drop heat costs not only the usual 10k, but also 20 intel. This is objectively worse, and is crippling me to the point that I've had to cut back my empire, and I have yet to see a single 'better' scheme. Will this balance out on level 3 and 4? Cause so far, it seems like Network level 1 is where it's at.

Sidenote, new to EG, so I'm probably missing something really simple.

Level 2 schemes are better than level 1 scheme. 3 scientist for 120k money & 45 heat and 45 minutes (I think?) beats the 20k money for 3 minion and 30 heat over 30 minutes any day.

Level 4 schemes go up to a million. Not to mention the passive income. And the fact that some henchmen / loot missions are apparently unlocked by raising network levels.

So... yes it's worth it if your base defenses are strong enough to beat the slightly better incoming agents. Just build lots of computers to raise intel fast.

[kasnavada]

Also, you shouldn't drop heat via schemes in most cases. Just let it overheat and wait for it to go down. Overheating is a minor slap on the wrist really.

[Darth Alpharius]

passive income

[Costarring]

Originally posted by C4Warr10r:

You do this for two reasons. First, it keeps super-agents away and you still get almost all the benefits with a 25% refund. It might as well just be a 25%-off coupon. Second, it keeps minions from being captured and interrogated, at which point you get agents.

You shouldn't get super agents if you don't do schemes in zones where they appear/are active on the world map (don't even do heat dumping schemes).
The only reason you should be getting super agents is because you started a story mission or a side mission.

[Socrates Jackson]

Originally posted by C4Warr10r:

They are good once you have the staff and the computers. You need WAY more computers than signal relays early-game. Just get enough to cover one continent and let the intel build up to near max. Then you upgrade, and then you start the real money-maker schemes.

The orange ones are good and faster, but the green ones are where you really make bank. I was confused by them at first too; "An hour? Are you effing with me, game?" But no, it's not as your minions are immune to damage the whole time that's going on and they make a LOT of money.

Now here's the trick - never finish any of those schemes. Cancel them RIGHT before they're completed. You get 25% of the intel cost back, and you still got almost all the money. Same thing for the heat-reduction schemes. NEVER finish them. Cancel them at 90-something percent and you get a refund.

You do this for two reasons. First, it keeps super-agents away and you still get almost all the benefits with a 25% refund. It might as well just be a 25%-off coupon. Second, it keeps minions from being captured and interrogated, at which point you get agents.

Personally, I prefer to use the time and funds to build a LOT of vault space, preferably within sight of guard posts. You're going to need a bunch until late-game, when you have better ways to store money. Half a million is enough, but it doesn't fit anywhere easily.

That is...questionable game design. But cheating the system is the evil genius way, so right-o. Guess I'll build some more vaults.
What specifically makes super-agents show up? I assumed it was heat overload, but apparently not? I've got two on me now, so hopefully a solution to that will emerge in time.
Also, why would I do the quests that summon immediately? Is that just to hit them when it's convenient or what?

Also also, thanks all. This game isn't the best at explaining itself, so the advice is appreciated.

[-=THS=-Lucifer]

Absolutely upgrade them - passive income is your long term goal. Heat shouldn't be considered 'danger to your base', because frankly, it isn't. Between your casino, a couple of traps and an armoury near your entrance, very little is going to get through.

I used the cash schemes only when needing a huge amount for a mission, otherwise I just used the heat reducing ones when I needed that particular zone's heat reducing to be able to complete a mission (and couldn't be bothered to wait for that to happen naturally).

For the main, passive income is your friend, so get as many networks and upgrades going on as you can and don't worry about places overheating at all. The main thing to avoid is going a scheme when a super-agent is present. Avoid that and you'll find it easily manageable.

[C4Warr10r]

Originally posted by Costarring:

Originally posted by C4Warr10r:

You do this for two reasons. First, it keeps super-agents away and you still get almost all the benefits with a 25% refund. It might as well just be a 25%-off coupon. Second, it keeps minions from being captured and interrogated, at which point you get agents.

You shouldn't get super agents if you don't do schemes in zones where they appear/are active on the world map (don't even do heat dumping schemes).
The only reason you should be getting super agents is because you started a story mission or a side mission.
:400OZGoldBar:

True, but sometimes I need money or heat reduction where they are. I also prefer to keep them from appearing until I have three or four henchmen. Learned that one the hard way in my first playthrough. The Blue Saint wrecked my whole base and Jubei just by himself. I didn't know he could use the back door! Such an ignominious defeat for en Evil Genius. Forgot to guard the back door.

But more than that, he kept turning invisible and putting bombs on stuff before anybody could kill him and make him go away. Hence the abundance of henchmen. Three of them at a time seem to work pretty well, especially when Max is helping out.

[kasnavada]

Actually, it's rather easy to trash 2 SA invasions and barely lose a dozen agents.

Have all of your entrances lead to a security room with 3 guard tables and the conference tables. Place henchmen to regen on the conference table. Set this room to "distract" (W or Z depending on your keyboard layout).

Henchmen see through all disguises, so agents will be sent back to the casino. SA coming from the entrances will start a fight and die. SA spawning in your base have to go through this to get out. Let them do whatever in your base and wait from them to enter the room they'll die in.

There are other ways to defend yourself that are even more efficient than this, but that one can be done a few hours into the game (so before SA).

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2452310976

Before anyone asks: it's on hard mode.

PS: just don't forget to "reset" your henchmen to the table every invasion. Alternatively, you can use your genius as a spotter (as the genius stays in place and packs quite a punch in a fight) but occasionnaly the genius will go in melee against 5 goons and die, so you got to be reactive when fight starts because sometimes you'll need to move him / her out.

[C4Warr10r]

Originally posted by Socrates Jackson:

That is...questionable game design. But cheating the system is the evil genius way, so right-o. Guess I'll build some more vaults.
What specifically makes super-agents show up? I assumed it was heat overload, but apparently not? I've got two on me now, so hopefully a solution to that will emerge in time.
Also, why would I do the quests that summon immediately? Is that just to hit them when it's convenient or what?

Also also, thanks all. This game isn't the best at explaining itself, so the advice is appreciated.

Mission progression unlocks them, or at least I think it does. Not sure how much is story and how much is just getting missions done, but in my first playthrough I had a super on me before I even got the super-weapon. Second time, none showed up until after, but I had henchmen. This time, none showed up until I test-fired and I've got the henches as well.

As for why you'd invite super-agents to your base, it's so you can kill them permanently. Best to be ready beforehand, and note that some like Agent X ans Symetry can just teleport into your base, which they will do with a full squad of agents.

I have also seen Agent X teleport in by himself while his agents went in through the front door. I didn't even know what was going on after he was defeated and I somehow lost like 20 minions to his "Hard-boiled Investigators." Turns out, they were doing that bit where they shoot valets, take pictures, and get more pissed off, so they were killing my guards and techs as they came out to get the bodies.

Oh, that's one more thing. One incinerator is not enough. You need at least four or five. Otherwise the minions will remove only one or two body bags at a time.

[Tenshin51]

Yes if you are planning to do Loot Side Mission. One of the loot side mission will punish you severely because you are not quick enough and established a lvl 2 Criminal network. Side mission that is involving Heatwave.

[Death]

Originally posted by Socrates Jackson:

Originally posted by C4Warr10r:

They are good once you have the staff and the computers. You need WAY more computers than signal relays early-game. Just get enough to cover one continent and let the intel build up to near max. Then you upgrade, and then you start the real money-maker schemes.

The orange ones are good and faster, but the green ones are where you really make bank. I was confused by them at first too; "An hour? Are you effing with me, game?" But no, it's not as your minions are immune to damage the whole time that's going on and they make a LOT of money.

Now here's the trick - never finish any of those schemes. Cancel them RIGHT before they're completed. You get 25% of the intel cost back, and you still got almost all the money. Same thing for the heat-reduction schemes. NEVER finish them. Cancel them at 90-something percent and you get a refund.

You do this for two reasons. First, it keeps super-agents away and you still get almost all the benefits with a 25% refund. It might as well just be a 25%-off coupon. Second, it keeps minions from being captured and interrogated, at which point you get agents.

Personally, I prefer to use the time and funds to build a LOT of vault space, preferably within sight of guard posts. You're going to need a bunch until late-game, when you have better ways to store money. Half a million is enough, but it doesn't fit anywhere easily.

That is...questionable game design. But cheating the system is the evil genius way, so right-o. Guess I'll build some more vaults.
What specifically makes super-agents show up? I assumed it was heat overload, but apparently not? I've got two on me now, so hopefully a solution to that will emerge in time.
Also, why would I do the quests that summon immediately? Is that just to hit them when it's convenient or what?

Also also, thanks all. This game isn't the best at explaining itself, so the advice is appreciated.

Completing any scheme in an area occupied by one of the super agents with bring them to your base.

[Socrates Jackson]

I've actually had no trouble at all handling the Supers, even if Bola lit half the base up last time, but I did invite X in once. He just came back as usual later though. Maybe you have to hit a certain plot point to finish them off?
Thanks again, all.