Evil Genius 2
What happened to S.A.B.R.E?
So I'm a big fan of the original Evil Genius and was looking forward to buying and playing the sequel however I've noticed on various playthroughs online that SABRE has been relegated to the entirety of the African continent with Western Europe under the control of HAMMER, Australia falling under ANVIL, Canada now part of PATRIOT.

I've found this a little jarring as SABRE lore seemed to fall in line with the classic commonwealth MI6 community and I have to question the motivations behind this decision. Is there any explanation for this in game or is it a case of modern political thinking rewriting something which made sense? SABRE lore was after all heavily linked to the British commonwealth and imperialist history.

I just find it very strange.
Отредактировано BR B-263-54; 6 апр. 2021 г. в 3:14
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Автор сообщения: Radene
Автор сообщения: cipco2

The Non-Aligned Movement overlapped the concept of the Third World but was quite distinct from it. Leaving actual history aside, the role of the factions in EG1 was to suggest a Bond-esque cold ware series of alignments even if real life was a lot more complicated. Both fiction and comedy have to rely on simplifications in order to be manageable.

The game was Evil Genius (based on Bond style cliches), not Cold War Simulator. The things that made Bond fiction exciting (scale of consequences, chance of failure) relied on some gut-level awareness of the stakes. Taking that out and inserting hypothetical blocs just destroys a lot of the pre-existing cultural context.

Is it unrealistic? Yes. It is a comedy game playing with Bond tropes which was already based on a simplified version of the Cold War. You can't laugh at the tropes unless you are familiar with them. If you want a different cultural context, then that has to be built first otherwise it is like a laugh-track with single-word sentences.

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I have enough of an imagination/capacity for thinking that I don't need to have "pre-existing cultural context" to laugh at something.

You know what, I did think to myself over the course of this discussion:

"Radman, that Radene fella sure seems like a well rounded, funny person." 😂
Автор сообщения: Radman2307
Автор сообщения: Radene

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I have enough of an imagination/capacity for thinking that I don't need to have "pre-existing cultural context" to laugh at something.

You know what, I did think to myself over the course of this discussion:

"Radman, that Radene fella sure seems like a well rounded, funny person." 😂

Cool.
Автор сообщения: Skirlasvoud
Автор сообщения: Radene
The previous Evil Genius succeeded in taking over the world. Only after that one was gone did the Forces of Justice regroup. Of course, the geopolitical balance of the world is completely out of whack after a few decades of global domination by the last Evil Genius.

All of that would've been cute, if only Rebellion had bothered to properly explain this within the game.

Evil Genius had its Cold War setting to explain everything. You could instantly recognize where we were and what was going on, simply by looking at the map.

Less so in EG2, which I'm fine with, but dammit you're supposed to give us an explanation if you're taking that route.

I agree with other (not with the "political correctness" kidies mind. They're just trying to apply their own political agenda) that the second game lacks the charm because of that.

I opened up a discussion in how the charm and lore is lacking, I made an assumption that political correctness may have played its part.... MAY... because let's face reality here.

Since 2004 which was nearly 20 years ago, the world has changed so much in what society deems as acceptable levels of humour etc. No way would EG1 be released in todays market with the Chinese radio host or Middle Eastern presenter, it would cause a twitter meltdown, that is ONE aspect of the game that others have mentioned that is clearly racial and 'problematic.'

SABRE itself as an organisation being based on British Commonwealth and ultimately empire would also suggest a fair few people would raise their eyebrows at its inclusion in the same way it was in EG2, so my assumption was the lore, factions and overall World building that went on in the original was neutered because of this.

I think there is a strong possibility this was the case, let's discuss it like adults and not cry, point fingers and call one another racists for trying to have a civil discussion.
I think it is worth pointing out one theory of humor.

"Humor is the benign violation of a serious rule" is proposed by Peter McGraw and Joel Warner. A lot of the little snippets in the game rely on the idea of taking something trivial and treating it as if it was horribly serious and the familiar institutional over-reactions.

The idea of treating Country music as if it was so bad that a Bond villain could curry favor with the public by destroying it and the muted reaction was a form of humor that relied on exaggeration (another notable part of the high-stakes idea of Bond genre fiction).

Pushing something to the point of absurdity is pretty funny to people who view such things as obviously absurd but (I speculate) is a lot less funny to people who don't trust that other people view such depictions as exaggerations.
Автор сообщения: MessiahofMelons
Автор сообщения: Radman2307

I asked a question and it isn't exactly an unreasonable one to ask considering SABRE was closely based off of MI6, British/Commonwealth intelligence services which if we're being totally honest with one another is a hot political topic and would likely get written out to avoid controversy over claims that the organisation somehow 'glorified the British empire' etc.

It's a valid question to ask but I appreciate your attacking tone 👍.
I can pretty confidentially day it wasnt written out for political correctness in a game where all the super agents are quite sterotypical
Also, agents in all FoJ have the same uniform, just different colour
The profitability (passive income) of criminal networks in every region are the same.
Avoid using any real world counterpart geometric naming.
Автор сообщения: cipco2
I think it is worth pointing out one theory of humor.

"Humor is the benign violation of a serious rule" is proposed by Peter McGraw and Joel Warner. A lot of the little snippets in the game rely on the idea of taking something trivial and treating it as if it was horribly serious and the familiar institutional over-reactions.

A bit like this thread, then? I mean, it's literally making a lot of fuss over something largely irrelevant to the grand scheme.
Автор сообщения: Radene
Автор сообщения: cipco2
I think it is worth pointing out one theory of humor.

"Humor is the benign violation of a serious rule" is proposed by Peter McGraw and Joel Warner. A lot of the little snippets in the game rely on the idea of taking something trivial and treating it as if it was horribly serious and the familiar institutional over-reactions.

A bit like this thread, then? I mean, it's literally making a lot of fuss over something largely irrelevant to the grand scheme.
Not really, while I no doubt think I'll enjoy the game once I can see the devs don't just run off. I'd feel without a soul, you are suposed to feel like your schemes have impact in the world and from all I've seen, only firing your "master plan" has any effect. Like idk atleast give us a small text box or scroll line (news style) saying what our minions did and how it went. Small details, hell with 9 sentences of "Construction workers raid and pillage local museum in Western S.A.B.R.E" I would be happy. Of course after some of the nonsense is cleared out (no ability to tag multiple agents at the same time, muscle minions not been able to upgrade, etc)
Автор сообщения: Radene
Автор сообщения: cipco2
I think it is worth pointing out one theory of humor.

"Humor is the benign violation of a serious rule" is proposed by Peter McGraw and Joel Warner. A lot of the little snippets in the game rely on the idea of taking something trivial and treating it as if it was horribly serious and the familiar institutional over-reactions.

A bit like this thread, then? I mean, it's literally making a lot of fuss over something largely irrelevant to the grand scheme.

Not really.

Lore and World building is hugely important, EG1 was positively received at the time because of its sheer take on 60s style spy humour and cold War aesthetics, alot of the bugs were looked passed because the game had a heart and soul to it.

EG2 sacrificed that for one reason or another yet kept the average gameplay, hence the extremely mediocre reception to it.
Автор сообщения: Radman2307
Автор сообщения: Radene

A bit like this thread, then? I mean, it's literally making a lot of fuss over something largely irrelevant to the grand scheme.

Not really.

Lore and World building is hugely important, EG1 was positively received at the time because of its sheer take on 60s style spy humour and cold War aesthetics, alot of the bugs were looked passed because the game had a heart and soul to it.

EG2 sacrificed that for one reason or another yet kept the average gameplay, hence the extremely mediocre reception to it.

I disagree. I've been having a great time with EG2. Plenty of over-the-top tropes to have a chuckle at.
Отредактировано Radene; 6 апр. 2021 г. в 5:25
Автор сообщения: Radene
Автор сообщения: Radman2307

Not really.

Lore and World building is hugely important, EG1 was positively received at the time because of its sheer take on 60s style spy humour and cold War aesthetics, alot of the bugs were looked passed because the game had a heart and soul to it.

EG2 sacrificed that for one reason or another yet kept the average gameplay, hence the extremely mediocre reception to it.

I disagree. I've been having a great time with EG2. Plenty of over-the-top tropes to have a chuckle at.

You can disagree but the reception and reviews around the game speak for themselves, they are incredibly mixed.
Автор сообщения: Radman2307
Автор сообщения: Radene

I disagree. I've been having a great time with EG2. Plenty of over-the-top tropes to have a chuckle at.

You can disagree but the reception and reviews around the game speak for themselves, they are incredibly mixed.

I'll give it a few weeks, to see what happens after the insecure manchildren that can't find their own backside without going on a rant about "political correctness", "SJW", or "woke agenda" find something new to antagonize.
Автор сообщения: Radman2307
Автор сообщения: Radene

I disagree. I've been having a great time with EG2. Plenty of over-the-top tropes to have a chuckle at.

You can disagree but the reception and reviews around the game speak for themselves, they are incredibly mixed.
Most of the reviews are not really about the humor. Moat seem to be about either things not returning from 1 or the world Map
Approaching this issue from the idea of lore or political correctness is the wrong approach. The borders on the map are the product of laziness.

Don't the borders look a little TOO convenient? Isn't it nice that every territory has exactly 4 districts? Politics had no place whatsoever in this bland and boring map design. More than likely, it was done to streamline heat programming, and be easy for the common millenial (most of whom have no knowledge of history or politics) to understand. "Oh, this is the BLUE area, so I get the BLUE guys."

Attributing this to some nefarious SJW scheme would be giving the developers far too much credit. Not that this isn't up to the typical standards of social justice brainchildren, it's just completely pointless that it would actually be one.
Автор сообщения: Radene
Автор сообщения: Radman2307

You can disagree but the reception and reviews around the game speak for themselves, they are incredibly mixed.

I'll give it a few weeks, to see what happens after the insecure manchildren that can't find their own backside without going on a rant about "political correctness", "SJW", or "woke agenda" find something new to antagonize.

This would be my view too. There are currently so many negative reviews becasue "Denuvo", "SJWs!" and "Why no Windows 7", alongside people remembering something from the first game it never had. Like someone claiming at different agencies had different AIs for their agents.
Автор сообщения: MessiahofMelons
Автор сообщения: Radman2307

You can disagree but the reception and reviews around the game speak for themselves, they are incredibly mixed.
Most of the reviews are not really about the humor. Moat seem to be about either things not returning from 1 or the world Map

The things not returning from the first game and the world map is one of the major issues highlighted in this thread, the map is both humourless compared to the original and jarring.

EG1 was given positive reviews despite its fairly mediocre gameplay because there was a heart and soul to it, in comparison EG2 is very flat and in the words of many reviewers comes across as a mobile game.
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Дата создания: 6 апр. 2021 г. в 2:44
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