My opinion on how to buff the weakest weapon series SMG families

[Angeloid]

My opinion on how to buff SMGs is simple, decreasing their fire rate and increasing their damage/handling/accuracy. Why deceasing fire rate? Well, here are three problems of high fire rate concluded by what I've experienced during the games.

First, with high fire rate the accuracy and handling just somewhat become meaningless when you keep holding the trigger, if you are not playing as gunslinger.

Second, the bullets will be blocked by the dead zekes' bodies. (how do you describe the death of the dead? deader?) The 8/9/10 fire rate of SMGs seems nice, but no, bullets will be poured all on dead bodies.

And last, the fire rate is so high that the mag cap of 48/50/60, with carried ammo around 360, is not enough at all. They always say Advanced SMG has the highest overall ammos. Well, by number it's correct, but truth is that you will find yourself go to ammo crates much more frequently than when using other weapons.

Let's take advanced SMG again as an example. There is a special perk of it called FMJ rounds 1. While it increases ASMG's penetration by 1, it decreases ASMG's damage by 25%, which is 2 for this gun. After taking this perk, the whole mag of my ASMG can only kill around 20 during swarm, as much as the kill of 4 shot of multi-barreled shotgun. So yeah, this perk sucks.

So, to me, for the SMGs' buffs, the decrease on fire rate and increase on damage/handling/ accuracy is needed.

[Maltsi]

Wouldn't that make them then exactly like assault rifles? It is kinda hard to balance SMGs no matter what game really since they need to be different than assault rifles, otherwise why have them in the game if they are the same as any other gun?
Pretty much every game has either under powered or over powered SMGs. The only balance choice there is really is the range it can deal damage, which in this games case is not something that matters.

[IndianaJones]

SMG are fine, they actually quite powerful. Need to be combined with right class, weapon'a perks and player skill. :D

The highlight of SMGs is their high fire-rate. Reducing this does not make sense or making them more like assault riffles. get gud :D.

[IndianaJones]

Originally posted by Angeloid Icarus:

Let's take advanced SMG again as an example. There is a special perk of it called FMJ rounds 1. While it increases ASMG's penetration by 1, it decreases ASMG's damage by 25%, which is 2 for this gun. After taking this perk, the whole mag of my ASMG can only kill around 20 during swarm, as much as the kill of 4 shot of multi-barreled shotgun. So yeah, this perk sucks.

What is this nonsene? My Advances SMGs has 65 bullets in magazine. FMJ is great for crowd controlling.

On higher difficulties most of the weapon's perks don't have much impact since all Zekes are bullet sponges, so you usually want the highest possible damage weapon, including melee weapon.


Besides that the Multi-barreled shotgun:
1) It was added later to the game and is more likely not be balanced and is overpowered.

2) You don't have guaranty it will spawn in game during campaign matches. More likely Avd SMG will spawn.

3) I suspect Multi-barreled shotgun has the same limit per match as Light Machine Gun. So only one player in match can have Multi-barreled shotgun.
For SMG you can often see double spawns from the same loot crate.

4) Multi-barreled shotgun have short rage. Avd SMG has longer range and should have less recoil.

5) There are class perks for SMGs since they are in the game from the beginning, like faster reloading which in fact increases DPS. Avd SMGs combined with explosive ammo should be much more powerful than Multi-barreled shotgun.

[welchtomato]

Depending on technique, smg has the potential ability to eliminate many zekes in a short time by headshot. In sporadic encounters, burst fire can conserve ammo. You can also get a big buff from ignition perks and fixer supply bags.
With a high level of skill and thoughtful use, smg is still powerful enough at this point.
Guns with a powerful single shot, such as multi-barreled shotguns, have strong suppression power against special zekes, but they also lack staying power.
I think the problem is the fact that a tier 3 battle rifle is not much more powerful than a tier 2 sporting carbine.

[Angeloid]

Originally posted by welchtomato:

Depending on technique, smg has the potential ability to eliminate many zekes in a short time by headshot. In sporadic encounters, burst fire can conserve ammo. You can also get a big buff from ignition perks and fixer supply bags.
With a high level of skill and thoughtful use, smg is still powerful enough at this point.
Guns with a powerful single shot, such as multi-barreled shotguns, have strong suppression power against special zekes, but they also lack staying power.
I think the problem is the fact that a tier 3 battle rifle is not much more powerful than a tier 2 sporting carbine.

Yeah you are right, besides lacking staying power, with technique SMGs are good.

I heard that Battle Rifle used to be good, but Saber nerfed it and thus made it the worst tire 3 weapon for now. Right now its states are like a tier 2 weapon and if it goes full auto the mag size is just not enough.

[Angeloid]

Originally posted by Deadlock:

Originally posted by Angeloid Icarus:

Let's take advanced SMG again as an example. There is a special perk of it called FMJ rounds 1. While it increases ASMG's penetration by 1, it decreases ASMG's damage by 25%, which is 2 for this gun. After taking this perk, the whole mag of my ASMG can only kill around 20 during swarm, as much as the kill of 4 shot of multi-barreled shotgun. So yeah, this perk sucks.

What is this nonsene? My Advances SMGs has 65 bullets in magazine. FMJ is great for crowd controlling.

On higher difficulties most of the weapon's perks don't have much impact since all Zekes are bullet sponges, so you usually want the highest possible damage weapon, including melee weapon.


Besides that the Multi-barreled shotgun:
1) It was added later to the game and is more likely not be balanced and is overpowered.

2) You don't have guaranty it will spawn in game during campaign matches. More likely Avd SMG will spawn.

3) I suspect Multi-barreled shotgun has the same limit per match as Light Machine Gun. So only one player in match can have Multi-barreled shotgun.
For SMG you can often see double spawns from the same loot crate.

4) Multi-barreled shotgun have short rage. Avd SMG has longer range and should have less recoil.

5) There are class perks for SMGs since they are in the game from the beginning, like faster reloading which in fact increases DPS. Avd SMGs combined with explosive ammo should be much more powerful than Multi-barreled shotgun.

Yeah you are right, since MBS is imbalanced and not easy to spawn, it's my fault to use this weapon as an example. I should focus more on SMGs themselves that they lack staying power as well as the ability to clear zeke walls.

[My face is my shield]

This is why the Classic Battle Rifle (LAR) is the best automatic weapon in the game. Low rate of fire, penetrates 2 targets, high damage - this is the ideal combination of characteristics. I realized for myself a long time ago that if a weapon penetrates less than 2 targets per shot, then it is garbage. The Combat Shotgun (S890) penetrates 3 targets in general, an ideal broom for pyramids of zeds, if you don’t count the four-barreled shotgun, then it’s a total mess.

[My face is my shield]

In general, smg should not punch anyone. There is pistol ammunition with a high stopping effect, but not penetrating. The same goes for shotguns. Shot or buckshot does not have sufficient kinetic energy to overcome 1 target. But an assault weapon that shoots 5.56 / 5.45 / 7.62 / 12.7 should generally penetrate 10-15 zombies per shot. For such ammunition, a carcass of meat and bones is not a serious obstacle. Look, FN SCAR uses 7.62 rifle ammunition. Such ammunition can easily penetrate 10 zombies and, moreover, cause serious injuries to their bodies. But 5.56 will simply penetrate, but the damage will be minimal, you need to shoot in the head.
Although, here we have a game about zombies, about the living dead who do not feel pain. Then only 7.62 and 12.7, other ammunition is not capable of stopping these creatures. In theory, SMGs and shotguns are generally useless against hordes. By the way, Special SMG (SR Smerch) is based on a weapon that shoots special 9 mm ammunition (a heavy subsonic bullet, the size of a rifle ammunition), this can and will penetrate a couple, however, I’m not sure that such ammunition is widespread in many places, except as in Russia.

[schicic]

Originally posted by Deadlock:

Originally posted by Angeloid Icarus:

Let's take advanced SMG again as an example. There is a special perk of it called FMJ rounds 1. While it increases ASMG's penetration by 1, it decreases ASMG's damage by 25%, which is 2 for this gun. After taking this perk, the whole mag of my ASMG can only kill around 20 during swarm, as much as the kill of 4 shot of multi-barreled shotgun. So yeah, this perk sucks.

What is this nonsene? My Advances SMGs has 65 bullets in magazine. FMJ is great for crowd controlling.

On higher difficulties most of the weapon's perks don't have much impact since all Zekes are bullet sponges, so you usually want the highest possible damage weapon, including melee weapon.


Besides that the Multi-barreled shotgun:
1) It was added later to the game and is more likely not be balanced and is overpowered.

2) You don't have guaranty it will spawn in game during campaign matches. More likely Avd SMG will spawn.

3) I suspect Multi-barreled shotgun has the same limit per match as Light Machine Gun. So only one player in match can have Multi-barreled shotgun.
For SMG you can often see double spawns from the same loot crate.

4) Multi-barreled shotgun have short rage. Avd SMG has longer range and should have less recoil.

5) There are class perks for SMGs since they are in the game from the beginning, like faster reloading which in fact increases DPS. Avd SMGs combined with explosive ammo should be much more powerful than Multi-barreled shotgun.

You probably missed the post we made on shotties a year or so ago, but I'll fill you in just to add another pointer to this. Normal shotguns only have 4-5 pellets in each shell, the multibarrel shotgun has 2-3 TIMES more pellets than that with better penetration somehow. This makes the already OP multibarrel shotgun even better if you add explosive ammo from a fixers ammo bag.

On the topic of the thread though, the SMGs are fine. It is just not your play style which is fine, play your way. But don't ask them to change the guns to fit your preferences and completely unbalance everything else. You can solo extreme with most SMGS, and maybe shotties if you tried hard enough...but I don't recomend it. All rifles regardless of fire rate is A-OK.

[My face is my shield]

In general, author, your proposal is very sound. In fact, smg should cause much more damage to zombies, but should not penetrate anyone at all. Even more - a couple of hits on a zombie from smg should 100% knock it over. The same goes for all types of shotguns. The damage must be huge, such an anti-boss gun. But the damage should not be greater than that of a weapon firing 7.62x51 caliber ammunition.

[Orb]

I think the Uzi is weak MP5 is nice

[IndianaJones]

Originally posted by Orb:

I think the Uzi is weak MP5 is nice

Uzi is tier I weapon it is supposed to be weak, just like Scout Rifle or basic Shotguns.

Originally posted by welchtomato:

Depending on technique, smg has the potential ability to eliminate many zekes in a short time by headshot. In sporadic encounters, burst fire can conserve ammo. You can also get a big buff from ignition perks and fixer supply bags.
With a high level of skill and thoughtful use, smg is still powerful enough at this point.

^ this.

[Saber Help]

Hi! Thank you for the feedback. We have added all the suggestions to the players' wishlist. The development team will check the list and see whether something similar can be introduced to the game in the future.