what was the reason for the weapon system change?

[Gekko]

back when this game was released you could choose like 2 paths for each weapon.
now these paths are only skins, and leveling them feels so dull and mediocre, why didnt they just add the perks ontop of this?

did the devs mention why they changed this in any form?

[JI06CT3P]

I am curious too

[Gekko]

Originally posted by The Nameless:

One of possible answer is - grind. Grind can keep you playing this game. Thats all.
But there is also existing a save file with "unlock all" feature.
Grind: new skins, perks, prestige, level up weapons, unlock extra character skins, trinkets and coins. Just grind. Or not. It's up to you.
There was none of that from the release of the game, but there were and are "yellow" and "blue" coins. At the time of the game's release and a year later, many players had accumulated 99999999 of these coins.
And only after a couple more years the developers found a competent use for them. That's the whole answer.

such a awful idea in my opinion, they could have added weapon skins seperatly that you could buy with the tokens maybe make them really expensive.

now the weapon attachments literally have no use and feel silly, back then it was kinda a achievement to have a fully modded gun.

i bought this game again on steam for the aftermath edition started it and was really upset back in the day because of this horrific change, now after playing it again it still is such a bad gamedesign choice in my opinion.

and i wouldnt really call it competent, they could have added those perks on top of it like in call of duty for example with their perk system.

[SGPoy]

Because the previous system was pretty dumb - the 2 paths boiled down to either more damage or better handling, and everyone picked the damage option.

[Frankie-Z-]

i agree the older system seemed to give more control over how the weapons worked and the graphics reflected more accurately what capabilities the weapon actually had , i can only guess it was dumbed down to make it easier for casual gamers to use the weapons system easier ,

[Vin]

Originally posted by Frankie-Z-:

i agree the older system seemed to give more control over how the weapons worked and the graphics reflected more accurately what capabilities the weapon actually had , i can only guess it was dumbed down to make it easier for casual gamers to use the weapons system easier ,

it wasnt dumbed down. the old system was not good. tying stats to skins was bad and they rightfuly removed it.

Edit: you have more control over your weapons now.

[Doktor Diesel]

The answer is: To artificially increase play time. They think there's enough variety in content for people to make this their main game when there isn't so they added more grind than WoW to pad play time, which it didn't because anyone with 1/2 a brain either just gets a fully unlocked save file or just realize this game isn't worth your time after one play through.

Originally posted by Vin:

Originally posted by Frankie-Z-:

i agree the older system seemed to give more control over how the weapons worked and the graphics reflected more accurately what capabilities the weapon actually had , i can only guess it was dumbed down to make it easier for casual gamers to use the weapons system easier ,

it wasnt dumbed down. the old system was not good. tying stats to skins was bad and they rightfuly removed it.

Edit: you have more control over your weapons now.

The new system is worse. by far. at least the old system wasn't a grind fest and the weapons I freakin paid money to be better WERE BETTER.

[schicic]

Originally posted by Vin:

Originally posted by Frankie-Z-:

i agree the older system seemed to give more control over how the weapons worked and the graphics reflected more accurately what capabilities the weapon actually had , i can only guess it was dumbed down to make it easier for casual gamers to use the weapons system easier ,

it wasnt dumbed down. the old system was not good. tying stats to skins was bad and they rightfuly removed it.

Edit: you have more control over your weapons now.

It was a pay to win system. They tied perks unique to paid weapon skins. People didn't like this.

[Vin]

Originally posted by DoktorDiesel:

The answer is: To artificially increase play time. They think there's enough variety in content for people to make this their main game when there isn't so they added more grind than WoW to pad play time, which it didn't because anyone with 1/2 a brain either just gets a fully unlocked save file or just realize this game isn't worth your time after one play through.

Originally posted by Vin:

it wasnt dumbed down. the old system was not good. tying stats to skins was bad and they rightfuly removed it.

Edit: you have more control over your weapons now.

The new system is worse. by far. at least the old system wasn't a grind fest and the weapons I freakin paid money to be better WERE BETTER.

the old system suffered from the same grind. weapons cannot store XP levels. that is still an improvement they need to make but that's besides the point. if you don't like grind, don't play grindy games.

so you're hurt that a pay to win system got removed? i couldn't be more happy its gone.

[IceBeam]

I am curious what Saber itself will answer, but, as others have pointed out, I do believe that the main reason to do so was increasing the grind in this game. Perks could have been untied from weapons without the unnecessary addition of 10 more levels that require a truly absurd level of grind and an absurd number of Credits (yellow coins). More prestige perks for classes were added after that, and they translate to more grinding for players to do.

Originally posted by schicic:

It was a pay to win system. They tied perks unique to paid weapon skins. People didn't like this.

This game still has certain gameplay effects locked behind paywalls, and some of them are related to the weapon perks that were added this year and even before that. For example, the new Defensive SMG has 2 perks that are locked behind post-Aftermath DLCs. One of them is the "Lightweight Drum" perk that gets unlocked at level 6 and requires the player to collect 9 document pieces for the first mission of the Las Vegas episode in the Challenge mode. The other one is "Unloading Vest" that gets unlocked at level 14 and requires the Arizona DLC (to complete the 2nd mission on Extreme difficulty).

[Vin]

Originally posted by IceBeam:

I am curious what Saber itself will answer, but, as others have pointed out, I do believe that the main reason to do so was increasing the grind in this game. Perks could have been untied from weapons without the unnecessary addition of 10 more levels that require a truly absurd level of grind and an absurd number of Credits (yellow coins). More prestige perks for classes were added after that, and they translate to more grinding for players to do.

Originally posted by schicic:

It was a pay to win system. They tied perks unique to paid weapon skins. People didn't like this.

This game still has certain gameplay effects locked behind paywalls, and some of them are related to the weapon perks that were added this year and even before that. For example, the new Defensive SMG has 2 perks that are locked behind post-Aftermath DLCs. One of them is the "Lightweight Drum" perk that gets unlocked at level 6 and requires the player to collect 9 document pieces for the first mission of the Las Vegas episode in the Challenge mode. The other one is "Unloading Vest" that gets unlocked at level 14 and requires the Arizona DLC (to complete the 2nd mission on Extreme difficulty).

heaven forbid you have to pay for NEW content that was never slated to be free.

these are not old perks that were cut and then re-added in a DLC.

want new content? pay for it.

[IceBeam]

Originally posted by Vin:

so you're hurt that a pay to win system got removed? i couldn't be more happy its gone.

Originally posted by Vin:

heaven forbid you have to pay for NEW content that was never slated to be free. These are not old perks that were cut and then re-added in a DLC. Want new content? pay for it.

Can't believe it's the same person saying those things. Look, I am not against monetizing new campaign episodes or cosmetics like new skins. What I am against is monetizing something that has actual gameplay effects and gives paid DLC owners an edge on players who don't own the DLC. It makes the playing field uneven. There is no problem with charging Challenge (Blue) coins, Credits (yellow coins), or assigning one of the unused mission-related objectives from the first 4 episodes to the new perks. I have elaborated on that in detail here.

[Vin]

Originally posted by IceBeam:

Originally posted by Vin:

so you're hurt that a pay to win system got removed? i couldn't be more happy its gone.

Originally posted by Vin:

heaven forbid you have to pay for NEW content that was never slated to be free. These are not old perks that were cut and then re-added in a DLC. Want new content? pay for it.

Can't believe it's the same person saying those things. Look, I am not against monetizing new campaign episodes or cosmetics like new skins. What I am against is monetizing something that has actual gameplay effects and gives paid DLC owners an edge on players who don't own the DLC. It makes the playing field uneven. There is no problem with charging Challenge (Blue) coins, Credits (yellow coins), or assigning one of the unused mission-related objectives from the first 4 episodes to the new perks. I have elaborated on that in detail here.

those 2 things are not the same. the new perks do not over shadow the old perks. its like with any content DLC pack. they can contain:

missions
guns
characters
cosmetics etc

as long as there is no advantage (and there isnt in this instance) you are just paying for new content.

Dead Island 2 has a few DLC packs that have weapons and perks but they do not overshadow the weapons already in the game or the perks already available.

having skins that literally make a weapon strong be locked behind paying money is bad. having new paid content be added that just adds more things you can play with is not.

Edit: Generation Zero is a good example of having pay to win DLC. a few packs offer a stronger or more durable equipment like the motor bikes, auto turrets etc but not their gun packs.

[IceBeam]

Originally posted by Vin:

having skins that literally make a weapon strong be locked behind paying money is bad.

The same logic applies to perks.

Originally posted by Vin:

as long as there is no advantage (and there isnt in this instance) you are just paying for new content.

There absolutely is. The "Unloading Vest" is one of the best perks in the common slot for the Defensive SMG (if not the single best). You don't get it unless you buy the Arizona DLC. Players who own the new Vegas DLC get to reload a Defensive SMG 20% faster than players who don't own it, and a slow reloading animation is one of the weaknesses of that gun.

The old Special SMG has the "Make Do and Mend" perk located in the unique slot. It is only unlocked by collecting documents of a chapter from the Aftermath edition, and owners of the base game will not have access to it, even if they buy the 2 latest campaign DLCs. It is the only ability in the game to repair a Virus Sample, and it makes an otherwise suboptimal weapon worth using, at least as a throwaway option.

Originally posted by Vin:

Dead Island 2 has a few DLC packs that have weapons and perks but they do not overshadow the weapons already in the game or the perks already available.

I have not played Dead Island 2, but if a paid DLC gives the owner a gameplay advantage that players not owning the DLC don't have access to, it is P2W.

That said, the Aftermath edition of this game unlocks melee weapons that overshadow the default one in many ways.

[Vin]

Originally posted by IceBeam:

Originally posted by Vin:

having skins that literally make a weapon strong be locked behind paying money is bad.

The same logic applies to perks.

only there is no problem here.

Originally posted by IceBeam:

There absolutely is. The "Unloading Vest" is one of the best perks in the common slot for the Defensive SMG (if not the single best). You don't get it unless you buy the Arizona DLC. Players who own the new Vegas DLC get to reload a Defensive SMG 20% faster than players who don't own it, and a slow reloading animation is one of the weaknesses of that gun.

The old Special SMG has the "Make Do and Mend" perk located in the unique slot. It is only unlocked by collecting documents of a chapter from the Aftermath edition, and owners of the base game will not have access to it, even if they buy the 2 latest campaign DLCs. It is the only ability in the game to repair a Virus Sample, and it makes an otherwise suboptimal weapon worth using, at least as a throwaway option.

Ammo pouch : 15% max ammo

Unloading Vest: 20% max ammo, -5 reduced magazine

the difference? you get 5% extra max ammo but have to reload more often. that isnt better.

Different =/= stronger (in some cases)

Edit: i dont know if you knew or not but when WWZ released on steam there was only 1 edition and that was WWZ: Aftermath.

[IceBeam]

Originally posted by Vin:

Ammo pouch : 15% max ammo

Unloading Vest: 20% max ammo, -5% reduced magazine

the difference? you get 5% extra max ammo but have to reload more often. that isnt better.

Different =/= stronger (in some cases)

First of all, if the description is accurate, it's -5 bullets, not -5% of the magazine capacity. -5 magazine capacity is insignificant when the base capacity is 275, and +20% max ammo makes a huge difference when the base number is 825.

Secondly, you don't have to pick one instead of the other, it is possible to pick both. +20% and +15% can be combined.

The right question ask in such situations is, "Is it better than playing without this option?" If the answer is "yes," then it does constitute an advantage.

Let's look at the raw numbers instead of percentages:

• Base magazine capacity at level 5+: 275
  
• -5 magazine capacity: 270
  
• Base max carried ammo at level 5+: 825
  
• +20% max carried ammo: 825 * 1.2 = 990
  
• +15% max carried ammo: 825 * 1.15 = 948.75 = 949 (it's the in-game number)

You also have to keep in mind that some classes in the game have perks that return bullets directly to the magazine, bypassing at least a few reload cycles.

Originally posted by Vin:

Edit: i dont know if you knew or not but when WWZ released on steam there was only 1 edition and that was WWZ: Aftermath.

I know it, but it doesn't change the fact that the game was launched in the EGS 2.5 years before the Aftermath appeared on Steam. Some people grabbed the GOTY edition for free during giveaways.