the prestige system is idiotic

[Cellsiuss]

you added 4 damn perks, and i have to waste hundreds of hours to get them, because getting each one is a complete skill reset. not only do i have to click through all of them every time, the game doesnt even remember my settings. all over again. in every class. four times. what idiot designed this system? ive never seen anything in my life that wastes a players time to such an extent. no respect for my time, so I have zero respect for you - ♥♥♥♥ you, developers.

[BORG]

Originally posted by Gustave Murdoch:

I think the point of the weak perks is to make them an optional grind.

You don't need any of the prestige perks to beat the game on highest difficulties, I'm sure they are people who can beat the levels with no perks at all.

But if you love the game so much that you've already maxed out all your classes, now you have a reason to prestige again.

That's all this game feels like now though is one massive grinder that's a lot less rewarding and fun. There is no real good reason to prestige further other than for bragging rights. It's not rewarding enough to warrant wasting so much time to get so little in return.

They should have added some new mechanics, weapons, content, etc. That would have been a lot more interesting and fun. A person can only handle so much grind in a game before it grinds their interest in the game into dust. In this game, Saber keeps moving the goalpost further and further away with all these extra prestige grinds and not making reaching the goalpost worth our while. If there was a motivating incentive to work toward something substantial, people wouldn't have a big beef with the current state of the prestige system.

I'm not a fan of games where its company keeps distancing and shifting the goalpost around constantly while bringing nothing substantial to the game or play loop. That's been happening with this game for a while and it's wearing on peoples' patience. There needs to be a better balance of grind to fun ratio to make the grind more enjoyable. Is it really so hard for Saber to give us meaningful and rewarding goals to reach for that bring new mechanics and dynamic to the game play? Currently, prestige levelling is literally a drip freed and bread crumb type of progression system.

As things are now, this game is a slog of maximum effort for minimal reward. Cellsiuss is spot on with their post. This game is not respectful of a person's time and it's why this game has a lower player count than a lot of other games out there.

[45]

Yea I always love skill trees and decisions that come with them but the grind to unlock the potential to play the game properly is always a chore. PayDay 2 had this issue too, amazing character building, hours to reach it.

[Sasha Pines (no brain)]

Originally posted by 45:

Yea I always love skill trees and decisions that come with them but the grind to unlock the potential to play the game properly is always a chore. PayDay 2 had this issue too, amazing character building, hours to reach it.

i mean the older infamy grind in payday use to give you % skill reduction require for getting them so

[45]

Originally posted by Sasha Pines (no brain):

Originally posted by 45:

Yea I always love skill trees and decisions that come with them but the grind to unlock the potential to play the game properly is always a chore. PayDay 2 had this issue too, amazing character building, hours to reach it.

i mean the older infamy grind in payday use to give you % skill reduction require for getting them so

Yea and you only needed to do it 6 times. Both killing floor games are egregious especially the first one. Deep rock is a huge grind.

[Heretic]

Originally posted by ChequeMate:

Killing Floor 2 has a very good prestige mechanic, after each prestige you get a XP booster so higher prestiges come faster. Wish this game had something like it.

I'm 100% on board with this. Every prestige and your XP goes up quicker. I like the grind, but I also wish it could just be a bit quicker sometimes.

[45]

Well even better theres no reason to prestige in kf2, you just max out the class then youre done. This game wants you to max out 8 classes 9 times or so for minor buffs and balances the higher difficulties around those buffs plus grind weapons which you cant get xp for till you pass currency checks for. The whole thing is a slog and all I want to do is play at the highest level with a full build so I can actually play the game.

[yanwari_taro]

I consider prestige a bad Western practice. Perk resets in particular have nothing to do with replayability and make no sense.
In fact some games have finally realized that fact and have made changes that do not reset in prestige. (Ex. Deep Rock Galactic, PAYDAY 2, Call of Duty...)

[BORG]

Originally posted by 45:

Well even better theres no reason to prestige in kf2, you just max out the class then youre done. This game wants you to max out 8 classes 9 times or so for minor buffs and balances the higher difficulties around those buffs plus grind weapons which you cant get xp for till you pass currency checks for. The whole thing is a slog and all I want to do is play at the highest level with a full build so I can actually play the game.

Originally posted by yanwari_taro:

I consider prestige a bad Western practice. Perk resets in particular have nothing to do with replayability and make no sense.
In fact some games have finally realized that fact and have made changes that do not reset in prestige. (Ex. Deep Rock Galactic, PAYDAY 2, Call of Duty...)

Thus this is why people skip the grind and download save files. Saber literally ruined their own game with lunacy decision making just to pad our play time. The time spent for such little reward is hardly worth working for. The whole game is unquestionably, a slog. Prestige upgrades shouldn't be reset, but instead, stacked. As things are now, it's upgrade and reset, upgrade and reset. Unless a person is devoted to this game and a dedicated grinder who enjoys grinding, it's not a whole lot of fun. Saber sucked all the fun out of it by tweaking everything that was fun about the game into oblivion. If it isn't broken and fun, Saber will fix that. I can only imagine how much of a letdown Toxic Commando will be. If this game is any representation of what that game will be like, we can expect Saber to wreck it.

[IceBeam]

Originally posted by 45:

Well even better theres no reason to prestige in kf2, you just max out the class then youre done.

In KF 2, if you want the prestige icons and skins for the class, you have to grind from the start again and stay below level 25 for a long time. The level-up process gets accelerated as you prestige, but it is still slow. It is harmful for pick-up games since low-level players see the prestige icon as a license to play as single-digit classes on the highest difficulty ("Hell On Earth"). Meanwhile, the kick limit in the unmodded game is still 2 per session, and it cannot be changed. Server admins tried to bypass that kick limit using scripts that operate on top of the WebAdmin panel and kick players below the defined levels without disabling class progression, but Tripwire ruined that by introducing the "No Local Admin" filter that de-lists the server from the browser in case the administration features are used to kick players.

Originally posted by 45:

This game wants you to max out 8 classes 9 times or so for minor buffs and balances the higher difficulties around those buffs plus grind weapons which you cant get xp for till you pass currency checks for. The whole thing is a slog and all I want to do is play at the highest level with a full build so I can actually play the game.

You don't need the new prestige perks to play WWZ on the higher difficulties. Most prestige bonuses are minor gimmicks. Some are more useful than others, but you can get by with unprestiged classes as well. Still, it would be much better if the unlocked class perks didn't get reset upon prestiging (Deep Rock Galactic embraces that idea). It would be even better if the new prestige perks were granted for reaching the prestige level 4, without requiring the player to 5 more prestige iterations for each class. The grind in this game is getting out of hand, while the overall difficulty keeps getting nerfed.

[Nunya513]

Bro just download a save file that gives you all this stuff so you can skip the grind.

[BORG]

Originally posted by Nunya513:

Bro just download a save file that gives you all this stuff so you can skip the grind.

Agreed. I'm to that point myself. I've had to start over on four different occasions due to the game cloud saves and backups being screwed up. So far on Steam I've been lucky (fingers crossed), but I always keep backups since I lost progress several times in past.

Many people would rather not use complete saves and have fun levelling up, but the problem is the grind and as IceBeam said, out of hand. People are fed up with it including myself. My mind has been swaying toward using a complete save especially after the extra prestige levels Saber added.

The game should encourage us to level up and make it fun to do so - not drip feed us to the point we get fed up and cheat. Saber literally put us in a predicament where we will be encouraged to cheat. Sadly, this game pushes people into cheating.

[yanwari_taro]

I suggested feedback via Saber Interactive's support form. (PROS portal registration was required.)
Since it is unlikely that Saber Interactive has seen this thread (I gave them the link to the thread in my feedback), users are better off sending a feedback message through the official website support.

[BORG]

Originally posted by yanwari_taro:

I suggested feedback via Saber Interactive's support form. (PROS portal registration was required.)
Since it is unlikely that Saber Interactive has seen this thread (I gave them the link to the thread in my feedback), users are better off sending a feedback message through the official website support.

They've been told many times by people through their website and this website. Saber just chooses to ignore us. If they actually cared, they'd have addressed this subject and problem half a year ago. They'd have addressed all the other problems in the game that persist which people have told them about repeatedly over a span of years. No excuses for Saber.

[KenTWOu]

Originally posted by BORG:

They've been told many times by people through their website and this website. Saber just chooses to ignore us. If they actually cared, they'd have addressed this subject and problem half a year ago.

Or may be just may be they have all the info they need to analyze it and clearly see that the system is working as intended, keeping enough people in the game, giving them good retention rate.

[BORG]

Originally posted by KenTWOu:

Originally posted by BORG:

They've been told many times by people through their website and this website. Saber just chooses to ignore us. If they actually cared, they'd have addressed this subject and problem half a year ago.

Or may be just may be they have all the info they need to analyze it and clearly see that the system is working as intended, keeping enough people in the game, giving them good retention rate.

It might work as intended for Saber, but I can safely say it's not working for the community who actually plays the game. I know people who used to play this game that have hung up their guns because the game's grind and brokenness have become too much to endure any longer. If you don't believe it, go and look at Steamcharts. That's just one example that actually shows proof of player falloff since the VOTZ DLC dropped. The base game has become a mess of bugs, glitches and unstable connectivity. People are pretty sick of it all and the player falloff since the DLC dropped in December 2023 is visual proof that things not being done properly and/or fixed properly is driving players away. Since the messy December update last year the player count has been steadily declining.