what did monika say to sayori? (spoilers)

[Lunitidal]

sometime before sayori dies, she says that she should do what monika told her to. so did monika tell sayori to commit suicide? or??
I haven't finished the game (I'm on the second part but i'm gonna keep playing tonight) so maybe the question is answered later? if that's the case then please don't spoil it

[HypetheKomodo]

@msander

Evil is still evil even with the best of intentions.





Monika's situation is tragic, and certainly a mentally scarring event. It's no shock that Monika's mind started to wear down the longer things went on, a prisoner in a game where the same events loop time and again. It all became meaningless noise, and I imagine it took every ounce of willpower to appear like she cared.

Still, she seemed to take delight in not only making her friends suffer, but the player as well. There are times where she seems to specifically target you with her actions like that oh-so-friendly "have a nice weekend" joke.

And it wasn't like it was a quick process: She had to psychologically destroy her friends over time. Taking their demons and either encouraging them, amplifying them, or both. It's akin to torture over a very prolonged period of time.

The scariest part of the whole thing to me is that her friends don't seem to be robots. They react to things even when they're not as they should be, even to things that aren't part of the script. Given Monika's poor coding ability, I find it hard to believe she edited the script for everyone to react properly.

Her "it's just a video game" excuse falls apart pretty fast considering that, and the massive amount of regret she has for her actions once she realizes that the tables have turned.

By the time she finally tries to make amends, it's much too late. Sayori realizes there's no happiness in her new role, and the cycle would simply repeat if Monika didn't erase the very world she destroyed.

She is evil, through and through, but she's an evil you can understand. Her mind warped, and having no ending of her own, she resolved to make her own by any means. A tradegy with no happy ending, despite her more and more desperate measures. She's a detailed character,
and that's why I love her.





And despite her atrocities, can never truly delete her.

[HypetheKomodo]

'Course! It's fun talking about DDLC and all of it's quirks, 'cause people have their own ideas on how things play out, and it helps paint a better overall picture of the story! Even in the beginning, there's so many small details that play out later on.

Think it's fun to be so passionate for a game! And hopefully whatever comes out next will be even better!

[Laeradr]

Hm, I'd say the requirement for calling Monika onbjectively "evil" would be to exactly know what her perception looked like. I mean if youd realize youre trapped within a game and you only perceive the other characters as files, wouldnt you try to do anything to escape your prison? She emphasizes emphatically that she has only driven the others into madness to make them look as disgustingly as possible, so she can get closer to reality - because the game wouldnt give her a chance anyway. I mean she wants to become part of "the players reality" and therefore doesnt perceive herself as part of the games "pseudoreality" until she realizes that, in the end, there is no way to break the 4th wall. Sadly there isnt a clear answer in this regard.
Therefore I wouldnt necessarily call her evil. I'd say until theres evidence for her being a real psycopath, Id handle her like someone killing people in a videogame who then realizes he just controlled a drone irl.

But I think everyone made some valid points, guess its a matter of preferences ;)

[HypetheKomodo]

Yeah! Like I said, Monika's position is extremely unfortunate. Just stuck being a mentor character, self aware and knowing you're in a game...And you just chill out on the sidelines, watching the player love all of your friends. Clearly started harming her mental health when she knew all the outcomes, and all of them didn't involve her.

Where she crosses the line to evil for me, is when she starts seemingly taking pleasure in her treatment of her friends, and of the player. While she seemingly goes for driving her friends to suicide as a last resort, that's still what she went for...All with a irrisistable smile.

Even the player isn't spared from her barbs, often sliding some snide comments about her friends, and how the player would be responsible for things that happened to them. Perhaps to weaken the player's will for what comes later.

Still, I understand if some have a grey area in this regard! That's just how I see it with what information is there. She's certainly a fantastic antagonist with a very clear goal.

[IceBear]

most of the replies are black so i cant associate with them #blackjokes

[timarehart]

Reading "Get Out of My Head" (Sayori's final poem) left me with the impression that among other things, Monika told her that you would be better off without a depressed friend/girlfriend like her dragging her down all the time--that if Sayori really loved you, she'd get out of your life forever. It's not directly stated, but I feel it's strongly implied.

[Saow]

My god this thread looks like a bunch of classified CIA files.

[Nephlink]

Originalmente postado por Flustered:

Don't read this until you're done, if you don't mind. I'll have the post shrouded in spoiler tags!

No one knows.

When asked, Monika swiftly deflects the topic. Sayori also says nothing about it.

Whatever it was, we can be certain that Monika is filling Sayori's mind with awful things, which is very easy to do with someone suffering from severe depression. Monika took advantage of Sayori at her most vulnerable.

that would make sense
spoilers

if you get the end where she commits suicide(i just got it and i feel terrible ;-;),the game goes to the title menu where its different, the place where sayori was is kind of replanced by monika

[Nephlink]

Originalmente postado por Saow:

My god this thread looks like a bunch of classified CIA files.

lmao too many spoilers

[Tymon02]

Yeah I though that's gonna be a normal game where you speak to girls but..

[Somali Pirate Radio]

Originalmente postado por Ranylyn:

Two words:

Hxppy Thxughts.

Monika put this in the game files to push Sayori over the edge. Her editing was minimal at first, but she did directly do some Act 1 editing, since Sayori was the biggest obstacle. Upon realizing she COULD manipulate things, I think this is when she went overboard with Act 2.

She was already editing in act 1, which is verifiable with the traceback.txt file generated after Sayori leaves the literature club(and the mortal coil). the file the gamme tells you to check when it starts glitching.

It includes a line near the top that says "RestartTopContext: Oh jeez...I didn't break anything, did I? Hold on a sec, I can probably fix this...I think...
Actually, you know what? This would probably be a lot easier if I just deleted her. She's the one who's making this so difficult. Ahaha! Well, here's goes nothing."



Also implied by the beginning of the final loop. Sayori gets up on time regularly. Monika removes all her changes to the game, Sayori's depression goes away(or at least is far less severe).


My impression is she was gradually increasing her depression stats behind the scenes. She didn't want to push it TOO far(especially as she wasn't very good at coding), so she did the final touches with traditional word-of-mouth techniques. And pushed it too far anyways.

[Milano]

Originalmente postado por Bubsy<3:

Assuming she told her to kill herself, since at one point Monika basically admits to having a hand in her suicide, and talks about Sayori's second thoughts mid-hanging. Monika tells you about how she messed up in hanging herself (the way you're ~supposed~ to do it, your neck will snap, you won't choke, leading to a largely painless & quick death), however Monika says as she was being asphyxiated, she clawed at the rope, attempting to get herself down. It's really depressing.

Originalmente postado por Spicy Dorito:

]that part bothered me. (this is my first time playing a game like this) im kinda surprised the main character didnt say anything, this immediatly raised a red flag for me.

Oddly, I didn't think anything of it. Playing through it for a second time, now, and it seems obvious what she told her.

Hey sorry, I know this is late, but I was wondering where Monika says this. I assume it's at the very end of the game but I am not sure.

[Heduardo]

Originalmente postado por redzen:

Originalmente postado por Bubsy<3:

Assuming she told her to kill herself, since at one point Monika basically admits to having a hand in her suicide, and talks about Sayori's second thoughts mid-hanging. Monika tells you about how she messed up in hanging herself (the way you're ~supposed~ to do it, your neck will snap, you won't choke, leading to a largely painless & quick death), however Monika says as she was being asphyxiated, she clawed at the rope, attempting to get herself down. It's really depressing.



Oddly, I didn't think anything of it. Playing through it for a second time, now, and it seems obvious what she told her.

Hey sorry, I know this is late, but I was wondering where Monika says this. I assume it's at the very end of the game but I am not sure.

Yes, it's at the end of the game when you're with just Monika.

[Lain]

"♥♥♥"

[Eville Caston]

What do I think Monika said? Well, it would have to be something effective, but not too obvious. A simple "♥♥♥" would be too out of character for Monika. I think it was along the lines of "You're hurting Protag-kun by making him pity you! Why not just shut him out of your life? It'd be better for us all..."

As to the question if Monika is evil and/or a psychopath, in short, YES!

First off, she's in no position to claim superiority over the other girls. It's clear that she's cut from the same cloth as them (whatever that entails), and that the game itself designates the club president to gain awareness. When it's Sayori's turn, she handles the role in a much more "pleasant" manner. Worst case, she immediately ends everyone's suffering. The whole slaughterfest is entirely Monika's wish come true, because she doesn't care otherwise.

Also, Monika may certainly be crazy, but she ultimately didn't try and fight it. She went out of her way to make everyone else suffer, including the player, even taking quite a pride in it. Basically, she's about as nasty as most JRPG villains, and I sure as hell don't feel like pardoning a bunch of those types en masse. I sympathize with her a good deal, but at the end of it all, there's nobody else to blame but Monika.

Finally, we have to address Monika's inherent flaws. She's severely jealous, possessive, and probably a master manipulator. The other girls' flaws were obvious due to amplification within the script, but Monika didn't even need to change herself to become unhinged. If you want to be cynical, you might even say that she didn't actually love the player, but rather wanted to claim them and use them to acomplish her goal (even if it is just to escape).

But hey, those are just my thoughts. I still can't bring myself to hate her...