explain your hate for monika

[supreme milf]

a lot of people on this board seem to hate monika. explain why in complete sentences and cite your sources.

[Sbeve]

ok so here's the reasoning behind my dislike for her. this might change if i ever play the game again, but it ♥♥♥♥♥♥ me up mentally bad
1. she effectively killed people. killing is in no way acceptable, and if you bring up the argument of "well technically they are not sentient", then you must be very blind because firstly, sayori becomes sentient as she gets the president role, and secondly, let's use a real life analogy. someone tells you to kill cats, then says they're not actually sentient so their deaths don't matter.

2. she wants to stick with you forever. monika fans might like that, but let's say that hypothetically she didnt look so nice, weighed twice as much and had an asymmetrical face. i dont mean to offend, but show you that the behavior is extremely creepy. i did not like her because she felt off, but that was accentuated when act 3 started.

3. why would she go to such lengths to discuss about sayori's hanging? that detail was honestly disgusting

[Sbeve]

Shion の投稿を引用：

Dr. Fib Liarsburg の投稿を引用：

And make no mistake, if you sympathize with Monika, you WILL burn with her.

And how do you plan to enforce that?

Another Sayotard making empty threats they have no ability to back up. How typical. One of the reasons I believe Sayori fans like DDLC so much (besides the inclusion of a depressed heroine) is because it gives them the ability to easily exact revenge on an adversary they believe represents everything wrong with the world.

Too bad it isn't that easy to vanquish your enemies in real life ;) I find it hilarious that nearly two years after the release of DDLC, the % of active users with Sayori flairs on r/DDLC that have visited r/depression has nearly doubled. They have no one to blame but themselves for being depressed - they can't blame Monika for "increasing their depression" because she isn't real.

i'm not going to argue with this not because the post is persuasive but because it's hilariously stupid to read. not only are you possibly undermining a mental illness that takes away 400 000 lives a year, but you're claiming that "one" is more sentient than "another", even though it is all a video game and everything is completely pre determined.

[Tregrenos]

shosple colupis の投稿を引用：

1. she effectively killed people. killing is in no way acceptable, and if you bring up the argument of "well technically they are not sentient", then you must be very blind because firstly, sayori becomes sentient as she gets the president role, and secondly, let's use a real life analogy. someone tells you to kill cats, then says they're not actually sentient so their deaths don't matter.

Monika had no idea the other characters could become self aware, nor would she want anyone to go through such a thing. Becoming self aware was a hellish experience, learning everything in your world is just a lie and being omnipotent of everything that has ever been and ever will be. Monika was self aware long before the player even downloads the game and had already reached a point where she considered suicide. The "people that she killed" stopped being people to her before you even turned on the game and the only feelings she had toward them stemmed from a lifetime of fake memories.

Still, she did care enough about them that when she learned of Sayori's sentience and recognized the rabbit hold she was falling down she opted to destroy the game. She did become gradually more twisted as the story progressed, but like I said above, if your life would end in roughly 4 hours the stress would be getting to you as well.

shosple colupis の投稿を引用：

2. she wants to stick with you forever. monika fans might like that, but let's say that hypothetically she didnt look so nice, weighed twice as much and had an asymmetrical face. i dont mean to offend, but show you that the behavior is extremely creepy. i did not like her because she felt off, but that was accentuated when act 3 started.

This falls back on the statement of having a lifetime of "fake memories". She knew her world wasn't real, that her life was a lie, but in talking to her at the end of the game she often falls back on nostalgia. Not just about the other characters, but things we don't get to see in the game, like her "memories" of being in the debate club. It's fair to say that even with these "fake memories" they shaped who was at the moment.

Now, take into consideration that her entire world is a harem simulator. Whatever memories she had would be along the same mindset of females that would exist in such a world. She eventually confesses to the player because of several factors following this mindset. The most obvious is that "there isn't anyone else", so Monika doesn't have a choice. She does try to make the best of the situation, but it was a situation without options. Secondly, going back to the "world is a harem simulator", she is mentally conditioned to seek out "love". With nobody else her seemingly natural response is to fall in love with the only other person in existence. Like the other characters this love happens in an unrealistically short amount of time, which is par the course in harem simulators.

shosple colupis の投稿を引用：

3. why would she go to such lengths to discuss about sayori's hanging? that detail was honestly disgusting

This would be after Monika had reached a point of no return. The stress was getting to her and she eventually snapped after Yuri proved too difficult to control. Her life was drawing to an end and she made some harsh decisions that she may or may not have known that she would regret later.

When Monika comments about Sayori hanging you get this sense of insanity, like she's forcing herself to laugh at a joke that isn't funny in an attempt to further convince herself that she had no choice. She would do this several times, mocking the others for "not being real" and how they were nothing more than a shallow stereotype common in "these kinds of games". Still, though, remember how I mentioned a "lifetime of fake memories" shaping who she was at the moment? Even if she knew these memories weren't real they still made her who she was today, so in a way they WERE real to her.

Not everything she had to say about the other characters was terrible, though. She comments about how Yuri had brought a bottle of wine to the club one day and how Natsuki went off on her about it despite Monika thinking Natsuki might secretly want to try it. After saying this she again repeats that they weren't real, but that she was just reminiscing. Reminiscing about what, though? She knows her world, her memories, are just lies and that nothing tangible happened until she became self aware. Still, though, she needs to remind herself that the other characters weren't real.

She needed to remind herself the others weren't real because, to her, they WERE real. At one point she didn't view them as the shallow stereotypes she'd come to know them as and needed to remind herself that she had no other choice lest she break down from the guilt. By the end of the game Monika may be putting on a brave face, but you can see before opting to delete her that regret still weighs on her mind, twisting her emotions as she has no other choice but to force herself to accept what had happened and look toward the future.



These are just my opinions though. I try not to judge others without putting myself in their shoes, though admittedly that isn't always my first response.

[Sbeve]

1. yes but does that justify her removing the dokis? and as a side note, i thought that monika had her epiphany when the game started, not beforehand, because the description of the game doesnt seem to hint to that
2. sorry, im gonna go sleep and then come back and read this again because i dont see where you're going at
3. i do not think that monika had known that her world will end in just 4 hours; sentience is not second sight after all, and at that point she had obtained her personal golden ending, unless you follow to the fourth act by ironically deleting the .chr file. and while she did say decent stuff about other characters, she also said some not so decent stuff about them, too.

[Tregrenos]

shosple colupis の投稿を引用：

1. yes but does that justify her removing the dokis? and as a side note, i thought that monika had her epiphany when the game started, not beforehand, because the description of the game doesnt seem to hint to that

Monika is self aware before the game starts, as evidenced by the games download page which she tells you about at the end of the game. How long before the download page went up? That is unknown, though we can associate it with the 5 stages of grief. Her actions before the 3rd step are unknown:

-- Step 3 - Bargaining: Monika tried to maintain her sanity by writing poems, but sharing them with any of the other characters seemed like an empty gesture. It's essentially the same as yelling in a big room with only your echo to keep your company.

-- Step 4 - Depression: Monika had found her CHR file and was tempted to delete herself.

-- Step 5 - Acceptance: Accepting the world is a game and the only way to get anywhere is to find a way to "beat it" she decides to orchestrate a way for the "player" to be introduced to the world.

More on her "epiphany" below. As far as her actions being justified, what is "justice" to you in this situation?

shosple colupis の投稿を引用：

3. i do not think that monika had known that her world will end in just 4 hours; sentience is not second sight after all, and at that point she had obtained her personal golden ending, unless you follow to the fourth act by ironically deleting the .chr file. and while she did say decent stuff about other characters, she also said some not so decent stuff about them, too.

She was aware of everything about the game. She knew how long it would last, she knew she didn't have an ending and she knew everything else about her world. Worst of all, she would come to know what happens when the game is "turned off".

Apparently, she existed and had some power before even the player learned of the game, but at the same time whenever the game is "turned off" after having been started she enters this trance-like state of screaming noises and vivid colors. Her world is essentially static and she doesn't know how long this will last, if the player would even turn the game back on at all. She eventually loses her mind only to be forcefully put back together the moment the game is turned back on, having retained full cognition of the experience of having the game turned off. It's no wonder she would want you to never turn the game off again in the end. Worse still, what if the player was given the choice to choose another character, what would happen when they beat the game and never play it again? Would she be condemned to this hellish purgatory for eternity? She didn't even have an ending, so it wasn't even a matter of "if", but "when" this horrible fate would happen.

As far as her "epiphany" goes I believe this has to do with her realizing that the only other person in her existence that actually has freedom of choice is the presence of the player. She can identify with the players various options, but at the same time these options had a level of randomness to them. Something as simple as a "yes" or "no" could impact the flow of the story. It's through this that she recognized the player could understand what "self aware" was when Monika herself couldn't even explain it. It would at least give her someone to talk to, someone "real" and with the freedom to choose without being hindered by programming or plot convenience.

However, it's apparently difficult to adjust the flow of the game with her own limitations. She already admits her reasoning for not wanting to "break the fourth wall", so she tried to pull the strings of the game to somehow make a path for herself and to put the player on that path. She made mistakes along the way, but it's not like she had absolute control nor the time to really understand how the game works once started. To her, the game was more like a living entity. Adapting to the changes as she made them, but ultimately trying to follow a hard-coded story. It seems the only way she could make a change "stick" is to remove that portion of the game completely, or at least find a way to put the information elsewhere so that it couldn't effect the story.

[Sbeve]

Where is it explicitly stated that she knows everything about the game? And to me, that doesn't really change much of my opinion towards Monika. No offense.

[Tregrenos]

shosple colupis の投稿を引用：

Where is it explicitly stated that she knows everything about the game? And to me, that doesn't really change much of my opinion towards Monika. No offense.

Clause of the title "Club President", which Monika wasn't are of until Sayori became the club president. One of the unexplained mysteries about this game is that the club president has to know everything which, incidentally, includes the knowledge that their world is "just a game". This isn't a gradual process, but something that happens all at once, hence the reason for Sayori breaking down during both scenes where she becomes Self Aware.

If you choose to start a new game and remove Monikas file Sayori becomes aware of everything around her without Monikas prior buffer to fall back on and immediately commits suicide, so it can't really be seen here. However, at the end of the game and Sayori becomes self aware she has a much easier time holding things together thanks to everything she was "made aware of". She "knows everything Monika did" after her CHR had been effectively removed from the game.

If you want more in depth information and theories regarding DDLC there's quite a lot out there to choose from. Below are a few good videos to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i28Dd8jXZxs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9AWvi82uDw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCPauvMxV7Q

[Sbeve]

I mean, thanks? I never asked for an in depth analysis for the characters, I only shared my opinion on Monika

[Tregrenos]

shosple colupis の投稿を引用：

I mean, thanks? I never asked for an in depth analysis for the characters, I only shared my opinion on Monika

Glad you stuck around anyway. Hope I was able to offer some interesting counterpoints to your opinions.

[Vash_Reign]

shosple colupis の投稿を引用：

ok so here's the reasoning behind my dislike for her. this might change if i ever play the game again, but it ♥♥♥♥♥♥ me up mentally bad
1. she effectively killed people. killing is in no way acceptable, and if you bring up the argument of "well technically they are not sentient", then you must be very blind because firstly, sayori becomes sentient as she gets the president role, and secondly, let's use a real life analogy. someone tells you to kill cats, then says they're not actually sentient so their deaths don't matter.

2. she wants to stick with you forever. monika fans might like that, but let's say that hypothetically she didnt look so nice, weighed twice as much and had an asymmetrical face. i dont mean to offend, but show you that the behavior is extremely creepy. i did not like her because she felt off, but that was accentuated when act 3 started.

3. why would she go to such lengths to discuss about sayori's hanging? that detail was honestly disgusting

Ever heard of this sub called r/Miefoundation?

[Vash_Reign]

Shion の投稿を引用：

shosple colupis の投稿を引用：

ok so here's the reasoning behind my dislike for her. this might change if i ever play the game again, but it ♥♥♥♥♥♥ me up mentally bad
1. she effectively killed people. killing is in no way acceptable, and if you bring up the argument of "well technically they are not sentient", then you must be very blind because firstly, sayori becomes sentient as she gets the president role, and secondly, let's use a real life analogy. someone tells you to kill cats, then says they're not actually sentient so their deaths don't matter.

2. she wants to stick with you forever. monika fans might like that, but let's say that hypothetically she didnt look so nice, weighed twice as much and had an asymmetrical face. i dont mean to offend, but show you that the behavior is extremely creepy. i did not like her because she felt off, but that was accentuated when act 3 started.

3. why would she go to such lengths to discuss about sayori's hanging? that detail was honestly disgusting

1, 3) Killing people in most video games i.e. TF2 is acceptable. Dan himself said that Monika can see it's just a game.

2) You can say the same about Sayori. If Sayori was a fat overweight white male with depression and other mental issues like many of her fans (look at the posts on the "Monika is Evil Foundation" subreddit and all the people there talking about their mental illnesses) far fewer people would like her. There's literally whole subreddits on Reddit dedicated towards making fun of losers like them i.e. r/inceltears, r/thebluepill, r/neckbeards

shosple colupis の投稿を引用：

i'm not going to argue with this not because the post is persuasive but because it's hilariously stupid to read. not only are you possibly undermining a mental illness that takes away 400 000 lives a year

I'll reiterate what I said earlier; regardless of whatever mental illness they're suffering from, I have no sympathy for people like Dr. Fib. There wasn't anything torturing them and forcing them to behave that way to other people.

shosple colupis の投稿を引用：

you're claiming that "one" is more sentient than "another", even though it is all a video game and everything is completely pre determined.

So you're saying that DDLC is just a game... which is what Monika thought. Why are you so mad?

Vash_Reign の投稿を引用：

You say you don't carw about him, yet you cared enough to go off an a tangent about him. Also he's not a carboard. Suck a ♥♥♥♥, and go jerkoff to your monika body pillow

You really lack self-awareness...
You wrote multiple PAGES about MC. I wrote 6 sentences about MC in total, most of which were explaining why people don't really care about MC.

Yeah.... i overreacted over a stupid character.

[Shiro♌]

Just yesterday, I've been about to get something from the other class with Yuri, and Monika has simply pointed out, that it needs only one person to do that.
Yes, I agree with her, but to me, she's kinda a lot into you, even jealous, I'd say, and she does a very little to hide it.

[Tregrenos]

Neprašanda の投稿を引用：

Just yesterday, I've been about to get something from the other class with Yuri, and Monika has simply pointed out, that it needs only one person to do that.
Yes, I agree with her, but to me, she's kinda a lot into you, even jealous, I'd say, and she does a very little to hide it.

She just doesn't want you to rot your mind playing video games.

[Vash_Reign]

Shion の投稿を引用：

shosple colupis の投稿を引用：

ok so here's the reasoning behind my dislike for her. this might change if i ever play the game again, but it ♥♥♥♥♥♥ me up mentally bad
1. she effectively killed people. killing is in no way acceptable, and if you bring up the argument of "well technically they are not sentient", then you must be very blind because firstly, sayori becomes sentient as she gets the president role, and secondly, let's use a real life analogy. someone tells you to kill cats, then says they're not actually sentient so their deaths don't matter.

2. she wants to stick with you forever. monika fans might like that, but let's say that hypothetically she didnt look so nice, weighed twice as much and had an asymmetrical face. i dont mean to offend, but show you that the behavior is extremely creepy. i did not like her because she felt off, but that was accentuated when act 3 started.

3. why would she go to such lengths to discuss about sayori's hanging? that detail was honestly disgusting

1, 3) Killing people in most video games i.e. TF2 is acceptable. Dan himself said that Monika can see it's just a game.

2) You can say the same about Sayori. If Sayori was a fat overweight white male with depression and other mental issues like many of her fans (look at the posts on the "Monika is Evil Foundation" subreddit and all the people there talking about their mental illnesses) far fewer people would like her. There's literally whole subreddits on Reddit dedicated towards making fun of losers like them i.e. r/inceltears, r/thebluepill, r/neckbeards

shosple colupis の投稿を引用：

i'm not going to argue with this not because the post is persuasive but because it's hilariously stupid to read. not only are you possibly undermining a mental illness that takes away 400 000 lives a year

I'll reiterate what I said earlier; regardless of whatever mental illness they're suffering from, I have no sympathy for people like Dr. Fib. There wasn't anything torturing them and forcing them to behave that way to other people.

shosple colupis の投稿を引用：

you're claiming that "one" is more sentient than "another", even though it is all a video game and everything is completely pre determined.

So you're saying that DDLC is just a game... which is what Monika thought. Why are you so mad?

Vash_Reign の投稿を引用：

You say you don't carw about him, yet you cared enough to go off an a tangent about him. Also he's not a carboard. Suck a ♥♥♥♥, and go jerkoff to your monika body pillow

You really lack self-awareness...
You wrote multiple PAGES about MC. I wrote 6 sentences about MC in total, most of which were explaining why people don't really care about MC.

Even than, peope can kiss a skunks ass.

MC is more sympathetic than monika and no amount of 'muh player vehical" is gonna change that for me if he's simultaneously the son of Lucifer.

Everything was manageable until Monika started ♥♥♥♥♥♥ around with the game. Sayori was depressed sure, but Monika drove it to critical levels and if she hadn't then MC and Sayori could have worked things out. MC gets a lot of ♥♥♥♥, but he reacted in a very realistic manner. Sayori was a ninja at hiding her depression, even Yuri and Natsuki didn't think anything was really wrong, the only person who knew about it was Monika because she can cheat and look in the code. So your best friend who you've known your entire life, who has always been this radiant ball of sunshine with a smile on her face, all the sudden starts acting strange and when confronted she tells you that she's always been depressed and has trouble getting out of bed some days. All the things she played off as being clumsy and kinda air headed all the sudden make sense. She's crying and waiting for you to say something after she just dropped the biggest bombshell revelation of your friendship/life. So you say the first thing, anything, that comes to your head to try and make her feel better, you tell her not to worry because you'll handle everything, you'll be strong enough for both of you, you tell her that you'll do everything you can to help her be happy.

Sure he shouldn't have told her that he felt betrayed, but this was a highly emotional moment for him too, and he almost 100% didn't mean for it to make her feel bad. He almost certainly meant it to reinforce the idea that Sayori can lean on him because that's what friends are for, but he didn't communicate it well in the heat of the moment. People give him ♥♥♥♥ for not staying with her, but he tried. He would have cancelled plans with Natsuki/Yuri to stay with her, but she told him not to and she would never forgive him if he did. He invited her to come with them so she could be around friends, but she wouldn't come. And up to this point she hadn't really exhibited any true signs that she was in danger, so arbitrarily insisting that he stay at her place or she his that night would have been silly.

[Tregrenos]

Vash_Reign の投稿を引用：

Shion の投稿を引用：

1, 3) Killing people in most video games i.e. TF2 is acceptable. Dan himself said that Monika can see it's just a game.

2) You can say the same about Sayori. If Sayori was a fat overweight white male with depression and other mental issues like many of her fans (look at the posts on the "Monika is Evil Foundation" subreddit and all the people there talking about their mental illnesses) far fewer people would like her. There's literally whole subreddits on Reddit dedicated towards making fun of losers like them i.e. r/inceltears, r/thebluepill, r/neckbeards


I'll reiterate what I said earlier; regardless of whatever mental illness they're suffering from, I have no sympathy for people like Dr. Fib. There wasn't anything torturing them and forcing them to behave that way to other people.


So you're saying that DDLC is just a game... which is what Monika thought. Why are you so mad?


You really lack self-awareness...
You wrote multiple PAGES about MC. I wrote 6 sentences about MC in total, most of which were explaining why people don't really care about MC.

Even than, peope can kiss a skunks ass.

MC is more sympathetic than monika and no amount of 'muh player vehical" is gonna change that for me if he's simultaneously the son of Lucifer.

Everything was manageable until Monika started ♥♥♥♥♥♥ around with the game. Sayori was depressed sure, but Monika drove it to critical levels and if she hadn't then MC and Sayori could have worked things out. MC gets a lot of ♥♥♥♥, but he reacted in a very realistic manner. Sayori was a ninja at hiding her depression, even Yuri and Natsuki didn't think anything was really wrong, the only person who knew about it was Monika because she can cheat and look in the code. So your best friend who you've known your entire life, who has always been this radiant ball of sunshine with a smile on her face, all the sudden starts acting strange and when confronted she tells you that she's always been depressed and has trouble getting out of bed some days. All the things she played off as being clumsy and kinda air headed all the sudden make sense. She's crying and waiting for you to say something after she just dropped the biggest bombshell revelation of your friendship/life. So you say the first thing, anything, that comes to your head to try and make her feel better, you tell her not to worry because you'll handle everything, you'll be strong enough for both of you, you tell her that you'll do everything you can to help her be happy.

Sure he shouldn't have told her that he felt betrayed, but this was a highly emotional moment for him too, and he almost 100% didn't mean for it to make her feel bad. He almost certainly meant it to reinforce the idea that Sayori can lean on him because that's what friends are for, but he didn't communicate it well in the heat of the moment. People give him ♥♥♥♥ for not staying with her, but he tried. He would have cancelled plans with Natsuki/Yuri to stay with her, but she told him not to and she would never forgive him if he did. He invited her to come with them so she could be around friends, but she wouldn't come. And up to this point she hadn't really exhibited any true signs that she was in danger, so arbitrarily insisting that he stay at her place or she his that night would have been silly.

I'm pretty sure I've already brought this up in this topic, but we don't really know what the base game would have been like had Monika not gained self-awareness. Lore-wise, the game had been tampered with the moment it had become known because that's how long Monika had been aware of her situation and she supposedly posted the game on Steam. While I've stated all the characters, even Monika and the MC, represent common stereotypes in these kinds of romance games I've come to accept that it's unfair of me to think so because of the example I mentioned above. I can't fault any of the characters for acting the way they do nor can I blame Monika for her actions simply because I know no more than anyone else. The only person who knows the full story is Dan Silvato and it seems he's as interested in seeing what the community makes of the story with guidlines and tools for creating mods.

I'm currently playing "The Purist Mod" and I gotta say there's a lot of detail that went into this. Sure, it's non-cannon, but it paints a series of interesting stories that are faithful to the source material. I'm only bringing this up because the MC has a great deal more depth in certain situations. Some of the comedic situations fall back on irony or pointing out situations seen in the 2nd half of the base game. There's even a joke where you can unlock the "secret route" by using the "Kanami Code". I don't want to get into spoilers, but if you're looking for hours of well thought out content and even an original music score then I really suggest checking it out. I will warn that there is one moment late into Sayori's route that sent a chill down my spine and I'm sure you'll know the moment when it happens.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1840796519
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1840593325

(The above screenshot is a joke that pretty much sums up the general perceived role of the MC with all the other characters that I couldn't help but chuckle at. I really enjoyed this mods use of humor. I will say that on the "secret route" the MC plays a much different part than with the other routes in how he defines 'happieness'.)

https://www.reddit.com/r/DDLCMods/comments/99zro9/the_ddlc_purist_mod_is_finally_released_turn_the/