[SPOILERS] Just finished Digital Man, all kinds of questions now

[XcessiveNinja17]

Finished The Silver Case recently. The 25th Ward is definitely jarring in comparison, and seems to go all-in with mysterious talk that purposely obfuscates what is really happening. The Silver Case at least felt like a sequence of concrete events, with the supernatural stuff being explicitly portrayed differently.

- Was Shiroyabu literally leaving the bodies of the hitmen, and getting horny, next to the ATM?

- What is the death-filing technique? His wig was actually a bomb or something?

- When did Sumio Kodai get out of prison and get reinstated as a detective?

- When did Ayame get out of prison and start working & paying rent again? Or was that scene with her still in prison?

- Kurumizawa seems like a more advanced version of Kamui? Sumio Kodai had to kill Shiroyabu because he was turning into the next Kurumizawa?

[Flurry]

Escrito originalmente por Arale//Zero:

Mostly because Ayame was already established to be dead in the first game?

She was one of Tokio's lingering consciousnesses in HIKARI.

That is something that most people seem to have forgotten.

On the Eleven Children, yeah, that interview was very helpful for my current replay of FSR. I don't think they were originally manufactured, though; the interview says that none of them were born on the island. Remy and Koshi say that they've finally tracked down the "Euro Maspro" to Lospass, which has "spirited away" children for years.

With that in mind, I think the idea is that the Eleven Children were brought to Lospass from elsewhere and cloned under Eleki. In that interview, Suda clarifies which of the Eleven Children are in FSR - Mondo, Remy, Koshi and Step. Of those four, three of them have clones - or 'stock bodies' - seen in the game. (And I have my suspicions about Sundance MIC and Koshi.)

Oh, and Correctness #06 spoilers Shiroyabu has stock bodies too, which seem to work the same way. He even has a 'rogue' stock body who is a terrorist, just like Mondo and Step.

The thing is that the year that the island was taken over by some organization, which is an event that we know the Eleven Children were around for - is 1979. Which is the same year that Riru Yukimura was killed. This is a big reason why I don't think Kodai could be the original Mondo if their backstories are contradictory and contemporaneous.

#06 spoilers I don't think Shiroyabu has any stock bodies, the entire chapter felt very dreamlike and personal to me, rather than anything in second half being literal at all, and honestly the whole clone storyline FSR doesn't seem connected in any way to 25W at all. Honestly I saw the clone plot point more of a story carrier or symbolism of Sumio's fear of losing identity or becoming artificial./spoiler]

[Arale//Zero]

But the clone storyline was mostly explored in Remy and Koshi's chapters, which were not from Sumio's perspective. Do you think that they are not real either? (Koshi is in 25W, but it's true that he doesn't refer to FSR at all.) I would think that their chapters are the most 'real' part of the game.

On the subject of literal reality vs. personal irreality, I'm never sure how to take these things because Suda often seems to be doing both at once. Like I don't think he would clarify which of the Eleven Children are in the game, and give descriptions of all of them, if it was meaningless to the bigger picture. But when actually playing the game, that big picture is not treated as important as the emotions/framing/writing.

[Flurry]

Escrito originalmente por Arale//Zero:

But the clone storyline was mostly explored in Remy and Koshi's chapters, which were not from Sumio's perspective. Do you think that they are not real either? (Koshi is in 25W, but it's true that he doesn't refer to FSR at all.) I would think that their chapters are the most 'real' part of the game.

On the subject of literal reality vs. personal irreality, I'm never sure how to take these things because Suda often seems to be doing both at once. Like I don't think he would clarify which of the Eleven Children are in the game, and give descriptions of all of them, if it was meaningless to the bigger picture. But when actually playing the game, that big picture is not treated as important as the emotions/framing/writing.

I always saw FSR as some sort of Lynch like fantasy world built from Sumio's psyche, and HCU/Testu literally invade in there and pull him out of his adventure game he has created, y'know?

FSR has so many unrelevant plot points they might be just symbolism or parodies personally

[Arale//Zero]

That's why I'm curious to see what 26W (or whatever the next game will be) focuses on; whether it goes where FSR was suggesting (Sumio meeting the real Step), ignores FSR and carries on from 25W, or is just a bunch of brand-new plot points (I would be kind of annoyed if it does that tbh). I feel like 25W's being mobile only is a large part of why it doesn't wrap a lot up and instead sets things up for the future. Then the series vanished for 11 years, so the momentum got kind of screwed up.

[boxythecat]

Has there been anything about another sequel? I'm a bit doubtful except that Kamui was seen in the new NMH, so who knows. Might just be a reference but perhaps we'll be lucky enough to get something. I just don't see any publishers thinking a new one would be profitable unless it's small scale.

[Arale//Zero]

Escrito originalmente por boxythecat:

Has there been anything about another sequel? I'm a bit doubtful except that Kamui was seen in the new NMH, so who knows. Might just be a reference but perhaps we'll be lucky enough to get something. I just don't see any publishers thinking a new one would be profitable unless it's small scale.

Suda's mentioned in multiple interviews that he has plans for the next game, which he's tentatively referred to as 26th Ward, to be an FPS about a war.

In black out, there are several references to "the 26th Ward" in various endings, almost always associating it with a war. There are also other references to oncoming war in electride.

About the Kamui in TSA: select the black out ending "Kill Aoyama and Akama simultaneously" for more details. If you don't want to: Aoyama and Akama take Uehara through time and space and give him a mission to meet with someone named "Mr. TD" in a diner. This corresponds very closely with the scene in the TSA trailer. Also in that trailer, Uehara is helping Travis find the death balls, and in that black out he goes looking for a "ball" of some sort.

Regarding profits: I don't have any actual figures to back this up, but I get the impression that it actually sold alright in Japan. (And only Japan. On PS4.)

[Danny Dataly]

Escrito originalmente por Arale//Zero:

Mostly because Ayame was already established to be dead in the first game?

She was one of Tokio's lingering consciousnesses in HIKARI.

That is something that most people seem to have forgotten.

Well ♥♥♥♥ silly me, yeah I had completely forgotten that detail

[XcessiveNinja17]

There's more than one Ayame.

One Ayame killed the other one at the Babylon shopping mall. The one who got thrown into the ceiling is the one in Tokio's consciousness.

The other Ayame is the one Sumio Kodai fell in love with, and who is also described as Tokio's little sister. She was killed just a few hours before Tokio met his employer.

Sakura Natsume is the only surviving Ayame who has been shown now.

[boxythecat]

Speaking of Natsume, does anyone recall he was shown in the first 25th Ward trailer? I don't recall actually seeing him at all in the game, unless it's part of one of the endings. Maybe I missed something. Don't remember what his status was by the end of Silver Case.

[Arale//Zero]

Escrito originalmente por ssfsx17:

There's more than one Ayame.

One Ayame killed the other one at the Babylon shopping mall. The one who got thrown into the ceiling is the one in Tokio's consciousness.

The other Ayame is the one Sumio Kodai fell in love with, and who is also described as Tokio's little sister. She was killed just a few hours before Tokio met his employer.

Sakura Natsume is the only surviving Ayame who has been shown now.

This is not true.

Yes, several characters are Ayame stock - Sakura, Chizuru, Yuuri in FSR, etc. - but only one of them had the name Ayame. The other three Decoyman victims - yes, all Ayame stock - have their own names, which should all be stated in-game IIRC, and some or all of them are *also* in Tokio's mind.

In other words, several characters are Ayame, but there is one particular character who has never been described with any other name. For keeping up the front that Kamui and Ayame were actual people, there could only be one of each at once.

There are also other surviving Ayame stock. Yuuri, as I mentioned before, but also Machiko and Kuroyanagi. (Possibly more, these are just the ones I remember.)

[Arale//Zero]

Escrito originalmente por boxythecat:

Speaking of Natsume, does anyone recall he was shown in the first 25th Ward trailer? I don't recall actually seeing him at all in the game, unless it's part of one of the endings. Maybe I missed something. Don't remember what his status was by the end of Silver Case.

I actually don't remember seeing that in a trailer at all. If you can find what you were thinking of, that might be of interest.

Daigo Natsume is in a coma, btw. Or something similar; he's not conscious, but he's *technically* alive, at least physically.

[boxythecat]

I believe it's right at the end of this one: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8lswIFyrolA

However, watching it now, it doesn't look quite as much like him as I thought. Seems to be missing the glasses. But now I'm not certain who it is exactly. It doesn't help some of the characters in 25th Ward aren't as distinct in appearance.

[Arale//Zero]

I think that's Kurumizawa.

[quixoticaxis]

Escrito originalmente por Arale//Zero:

Remember, in quantum mechanics, if something isn't observed, it doesn't exist.

I cannot remember because it is not true. Multi-state or undefined state has nothing to do with notion of existence. Dat sci-fi...

[Arale//Zero]

Escrito originalmente por quixoticaxis:

Escrito originalmente por Arale//Zero:

Remember, in quantum mechanics, if something isn't observed, it doesn't exist.

I cannot remember because it is not true. Multi-state or undefined state has nothing to do with notion of existence. Dat sci-fi...

You're right, it's more complicated than I said it as.

But I think it is the science-fiction version of quantum mechanics that 25W is half-expecting you to be familiar with, so as to grasp on to the "ah, observers have to do with reality" connection without prodding.