Engineer Drones Too Weak

[Vulkan]

Is it me or do the Drones on higher difficultly just die instantly even with decent/heavy investment?
Their HP feels too low (currently trying Guardian III) and their damage output is not noticeable even with the Mark Perk. It wouldn't be that bad if they didn't die instantly.
Does anyone else feel this way?

[Shiki Diki]

To me, they SOMETIMES feel squishy, but whenever I go for a drone build the damage is good to an extent I don't need to resummon them anymore thanks to them clearing the room.

[Vulkan]

Originally posted by Shiki Diki:

To me, they SOMETIMES feel squishy, but whenever I go for a drone build the damage is good to an extent I don't need to resummon them anymore thanks to them clearing the room.

It is like this, if I build for them the enemies in a room will live longer as damage will be more on the drones. Which in turn allows enemies to deal more damage.

But if I don't build for them and focus on my damage or do like a nice elemental combo then I can clear the room fast and the enemies in turn deal much less damage.

[Jimmy Hunter]

I find Drones to be better for utility. Such as Marking enemies or applying Burn for Toaster. They also make wonderful diversion for Snipers and Beams to waste their time on while I'm busy gunning them down.

With that said, the damage output of Drones is good against smaller targets like the Mini turrets in Fusion/Haven, Flies, Bots and Shields.

[Seannach]

I feel like this is a balancing overcorrect. In beta, drone build was amazing. I just tried to play a drone sniper build and it just felt completely useless. Drones are too squishy even if you increase their health. Do next to no damage if you buff their damage. The whole meta feels like its elemental explosive or auto weapons right now. Would love to see more variety.

[vladulenta]

It's a peculiar balancing act since the engi's got the same guns and movement as all the other classes so the drones can't be too good or he becomes the best in the game, but now they're so bad that you could just stop spawning them after Field and not much would change.

I think their health should scale with the level and they should take less aggro. As they are now they die in 1-3 seconds without doing anything.

[Vulkan]

Originally posted by vladulenta:

It's a peculiar balancing act since the engi's got the same guns and movement as all the other classes so the drones can't be too good or he becomes the best in the game, but now they're so bad that you could just stop spawning them after Field and not much would change.

I think their health should scale with the level and they should take less aggro. As they are now they die in 1-3 seconds without doing anything.

Honestly not spawning them after level 2 is probably the best advice so that enemies don't shoot at them and makes dodging projectiles harder.

[Jimmy Hunter]

Originally posted by V-Sacrificial Lamb:

Honestly not spawning them after level 2 is probably the best advice so that enemies don't shoot at them and makes dodging projectiles harder.

Sounds like you need to stop standing in the line of sight between the drones and the enemies then. Drones are still reliable at staying alive even up through Iris on G4. Just need to actually make use of that scrap you get off drops instead of letting them constantly die off.

If you're taking so long that your drones are dying by the time you finish Quarry/Ruins/Oasis, you're doing something horribly wrong.

[Shiki Diki]

Originally posted by Jimmy Hunter:

Sounds like you need to stop standing in the line of sight between the drones and the enemies then. Drones are still reliable at staying alive even up through Iris on G4. Just need to actually make use of that scrap you get off drops instead of letting them constantly die off.

If you're taking so long that your drones are dying by the time you finish Quarry/Ruins/Oasis, you're doing something horribly wrong.

Yeah, i think not utilizing scrap seems to be the biggest issue here. I personally have no Problems with drones. Back then in EA they were overtuned, nerfed to the ground, overtuned again and now with the full release they feel alright for me.
I seldomly see more than one drone dying, even if I don't shoot much myself and once you know how to move, or have certain gadgets, you shouldn't be hit much by stuff originally directed at your drones.
Scrap allows for a certain spamability of Deploy and thus heals-galore, while damage, especially with chroma-burn, is really good imo.

[Vulkan]

Originally posted by Jimmy Hunter:

Originally posted by V-Sacrificial Lamb:

Honestly not spawning them after level 2 is probably the best advice so that enemies don't shoot at them and makes dodging projectiles harder.

Sounds like you need to stop standing in the line of sight between the drones and the enemies then. Drones are still reliable at staying alive even up through Iris on G4. Just need to actually make use of that scrap you get off drops instead of letting them constantly die off.

If you're taking so long that your drones are dying by the time you finish Quarry/Ruins/Oasis, you're doing something horribly wrong.

I don't even remotely stay near my drones, I am constantly moving around on G4 pushing in and out of enemies with grapple and head bonks.
The issue with enemies shooting at a drone is if you need to alter your movement course the projectile meant for your drone is now going to hit you and throw off your timing on things.
Heals-galore is fine and all but when I watch my drones get 1-2 two shot I now play at a detriment.
The points you spent on drones could easily be put into self improvement Chroma-Wep, mix it with another elemental is hard to not pick. Plus if you take more Drones perk they lose HP and Damage. I feel it should just be damage or give us modes to spread our drones out via different behaviors.

[Fraggoth]

Honestly, if you're finding that your drones are dying too often, make sure you're using the drone summon every single time it comes off cooldown in combat; even if the drones are still there, the re-summon heals all of them at once.

I do agree that while it does feel harder to make drones feel like they deal consistent, effective damage at higher levels and difficulties than it used to be, gearing them for utility (marking, staggering with explosions, elemental effects, and just having a lot of them around) and really focusing on going drone-heavy for your level ups really makes them shine. Engineer is still one of my favorite 'Bots to use.

[Shiki Diki]

Originally posted by V-Sacrificial Lamb:

Heals-galore is fine and all but when I watch my drones get 1-2 two shot I now play at a detriment.

I never see em even close to two-shot, at max really burst down when right in front of one of these driving gatling turrets. And family swarm (more drones) also gives access to the invul bubble for drones, so it's not like the "less health downside" couldn't be mitigated, especially as the damage is more often then not spread out across all 4 drones, instead of just 2.

[Vulkan]

Originally posted by Fraggoth:

Honestly, if you're finding that your drones are dying too often, make sure you're using the drone summon every single time it comes off cooldown in combat; even if the drones are still there, the re-summon heals all of them at once.

I do agree that while it does feel harder to make drones feel like they deal consistent, effective damage at higher levels and difficulties than it used to be, gearing them for utility (marking, staggering with explosions, elemental effects, and just having a lot of them around) and really focusing on going drone-heavy for your level ups really makes them shine. Engineer is still one of my favorite 'Bots to use.

I use the ability as often as possible, but when you are playing G4 where enemies deal 50% increased damage mitigation for them is just RNG.
If an enemy shoots a projectile at you, you just dodge out of the way.
When a drone is targeted it depends on the drone's AI. They now they are damaged or dead.
I have watched those Line Projectiles take two of my drones out.
I just wish we could assign different behaviors to spread enemy attention.

[Shiki Diki]

I just did a full-invest drone run and had a blast. I only counted 4 drone deaths in the first 2 Zones. After that they didn't even take damage most of the time. I also didn't have any marking! (I will give a link to some clips from that run at the end. And yes, yes it is just one run, but this is how almost all my drone runs go. So it's a good representation)

With full-invest, Drones are an incredibly strong build (like almost any full-invest build, lel). However, you shouldn't go Hybrid. For most other builds, the only really good drone perks are scrap snacks (for more RoF, though Scrap Pancake is the better Perk for that purpose) and Geared buddies for the marking.
But even then, Drones shouldn't really die that often after the first boss, as most 2 Perk combinations on Engineer that synergise provide sufficient clear speed. That wich is dead cannot shoot.

Here the clips: https://imgur.com/a/Mw5d1Qk

(Camera movement is stiff sometimes thanks to my arms being kinda fried after my workout :))

[Jimmy Hunter]

Originally posted by V-Sacrificial Lamb:

I use the ability as often as possible, but when you are playing G4 where enemies deal 50% increased damage mitigation for them is just RNG.

G4 is only 40% increased damage, not 50%.