Endless Mode Really Needs to be Rebalanced / Reworked

[[deleted]]

There really isn't much of any balancing and it's a crap-shoot as to whether or not the glitch or singularity you get in the early levels will just flat out end your run, due to it not scaling properly with where your character is at in said run. It just feels like you need good luck in order to get a good run going.

A good chunk of the singularities and glitches aren't actually making the run harder, they're just gimping your current build and ruining upgrades that you've made throughout the run. Nerfing the player's stats really isn't a good way to increase difficulty. It's just not fun sinking a lot of upgrades and power cells into decreasing your primary ability's cooldown, only for it to be completely undone with a glitch (especially when this happens in the early levels).

In my opinion, the jetpack fuel reduction glitch is probably one of the worst player debuffs. It pretty much makes the jetpack useless, unless you're lucky enough to be able to buy the perk that gives you an extra 2 seconds of jetpack time.

The endless mode should be letting you take your build to the next level, however you stop being able to actually upgrade your build past about level 12 or 13, and instead just get a choice between some power cells, health restoration, or increased damage for like 30 seconds. If you survive to this point, there really isn't much of a reason to keep playing it, as you can't upgrade your build itself anymore beyond vendor perks. You also just kinda melt through all the enemies past this point as well, reinforcing my point of there not really being any real balancing. It gets boring fast.

The boss fights could also really use a good looking at as well. Some of them you can just melt through extremely quickly, regardless of where you're at in the run, whereas others (like the Iris and Diggy Mole combo) can essentially stun lock you in place and kill you in a few seconds. Since whatever boss fight you get seems to be completely random, this can also make or break a run in the early levels, where you just aren't really equipped to handle foes like that yet. To be completely honest, I don't think dual bosses should be appearing until later on in your run. That's how you actually scale up difficulty to compensate for a stronger character.

Before anyone says that I'm just complaining for the sake of complaining, I've S-ranked Guardian IV and have hit level 13 on on the same difficulty in endless mode. PLEASE rework the endless mode. It's got potential, but it just not that good in it's current state.

[Devilinin]

facts, especially about the glitches

[Jimmy Hunter]

There's been zero communication from the Devs about the feedback players have given since Endless came out. Really feels like Endless wasn't ready for release and they just shoved it out and shrugged their shoulders over it.

[Lednard]

I mean... Endless mode really feel like they overthought something simple and in turn it just doesn't work.
5 Perk Maximum ruins the interest of Endless Mode.
Level ups stopping at level 25 makes it pointless because it effectively stop your growth. (So it's not ENDLESS)
The glitches can ruin your entire playthrough and they're either pointless or not funny, and they come with no rewards. There's no risk and rewards here, it's just "Pray to RNGesus that we don't end your run with this one simple trick".
But to me the worst part is definitely the double bosses:
In the beginning, unless you end up on some extra easy boss, or that matches your set up, or if you got God Like luck with the RNG, you can pretty much go F yourself. Later on... One or two, it doesn't matter.
But here's the other issue: It's not 2 bosses. It's one ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ with two bodies, you can't strategize in an interesting way, you only need to ask yourself "Who can I headbonk on to be the most safe ?" Because you can't get rid of one they share the same life. So you just beat on whoever flies the highest.

[Devilinin]

Originally posted by Lednard:

I mean... Endless mode really feel like they overthought something simple and in turn it just doesn't work.
5 Perk Maximum ruins the interest of Endless Mode.
Level ups stopping at level 25 makes it pointless because it effectively stop your growth. (So it's not ENDLESS)
The glitches can ruin your entire playthrough and they're either pointless or not funny, and they come with no rewards. There's no risk and rewards here, it's just "Pray to RNGesus that we don't end your run with this one simple trick".
But to me the worst part is definitely the double bosses:
In the beginning, unless you end up on some extra easy boss, or that matches your set up, or if you got God Like luck with the RNG, you can pretty much go F yourself. Later on... One or two, it doesn't matter.
But here's the other issue: It's not 2 bosses. It's one ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ with two bodies, you can't strategize in an interesting way, you only need to ask yourself "Who can I headbonk on to be the most safe ?" Because you can't get rid of one they share the same life. So you just beat on whoever flies the highest.

facts, although the glitches should feel like detriments you can play around, not something you are rewarded for engaging with. i remember people being mad about the headbonk singularity on release, and while it is annoying its the correct design for the mode. change the way we play, not the stats we have. like imagine if elites got a second set of arms, easy name call it machampion elites. instead of damage ramping endlessless make it attack and movespeed so people cant actually go forever without playing like a god and so it feels like you actually got outscaled rather than accidentally getting hit once and losing. the mode missed a lot of easy layups, especially when you consider the glitches that nerf auto crit, secondary damage, and primary cooldown, which easily could have been made to work like tv remote where those effects proc a status effect on yourself at random making getting them feel at least engaging

[Devilinin]

Originally posted by Jimmy Hunter:

There's been zero communication from the Devs about the feedback players have given since Endless came out. Really feels like Endless wasn't ready for release and they just shoved it out and shrugged their shoulders over it.

i think they wanna move on, 1.0 updates mean the game is done nowadays. if thats not the case im scared that the negative feedback will push them away tbh, i need more of this game xd

[Jimmy Hunter]

Originally posted by Devilinin:

facts, i remember people being mad about the headbonk singularity on release, and while it is annoying its the correct design for the mode. change the way we play, not the stats we have.

Bunny Shield is a horrific idea and the person who came up with adding it needs a quick slap. Head Bonking as a means of REMOVING the shield is not a fun concept to play around. There's many situations where, realistically, it's going to result in you taking damage. Being forced to eat a hit over and over results in your eventual death.

Plus this ignores the fact that it's incredibly unfun to play around disrupts the flow of combat. This is doubly so when it's complete RNG when/if you see the Glitch. Especially considering this one effectively requires you to completely change how you approach every single encounter. With the Powercell economy being hot garbage, you really can't afford to be skipping out on enemies. You're losing progress towards your limited power ceiling for every Shielded enemy you skip too.

This is just another example of how poorly thought out Endless is.

Originally posted by Devilinin:

i think they wanna move on, 1.0 updates mean the game is done nowadays.

This is not a reason to add objectively bad ideas and poorly made content into a video game. We should not, under any circumstance, be okay with a company that pulls this kind of crap.

Also version number has zero bearing on if a game gets updates, bug fixes, or content. I have dozens of games in my library that are "done", yet still they continue to put out updates that add content and bug fixes. "It's 1.0, ergo the game is done" is corpro speak at best.

[Devilinin]

Originally posted by Jimmy Hunter:

Head Bonking as a means of REMOVING the shield is not a fun concept to play around.

you right, i also hate that mechanic but its the right direction wrong execution, maybe if gadgets could remove the shield it would feel better and would lessen the negatives you stated previously as you wouldnt consider skipping those enemies entirely, cant say i havent done that lol. the obvious main issue is how linear the counter to the gameplay mechanic is, there should be multiple ways around it

Originally posted by Jimmy Hunter:

Originally posted by Devilinin:

i think they wanna move on, 1.0 updates mean the game is done nowadays.

This is not a reason to add objectively bad ideas and poorly made content into a video game. We should not, under any circumstance, be okay with a company that pulls this kind of crap.

man it just makes me sad but it happens time and time again, wish it is not the case

[VlaDoshirack]

Really informative and right thing for devs to see. You can kill any boss without a problem only playing as Ranger while you in invisibility

[Trans Lives Matter <3]

The double bosses really are just TRASH! I just had a really good team mate and still couldn't beat the FIRST double boss...and it was only on Hard... when I have completed the normal mode on Guardian 4 multiple times. Trash trash trash.

[nwdl25828]

Since endless clearly never going to get a major change I come up with the idea of endless 2.0

A mod I came up with that adds bigger arenas, removes duel bosses for endless single unique bosses and toggleable maps, bosses and gltiches.

Tho I have no modding experience and dought any of this is actual possible with mods for roboquest lol

But hey It's the thought that counts.... I think.

[Otakuwolf]

I'm no game developer but I feel like what they should have done for endless was the base game with randomized acts order which keeps on going... endlessly, no limits to player perks and upgrades, infinite enemy and player weapon scaling, and that's it.

No need for "glitches", no need for "singularities", no need for "double bosses", none of that crap, just the base game but keeps on going until you either die or call it quits.

If you want a perfect example of this done right look no further than Ziggurat (I only played the first so can't say if the second is the same) or Immortal Redneck, because that's about what they do and Roboquest, among others, should have done.

I guess at this point is kinda like yelling at clouds to have endless mode "fixed" but that's my thought on the matter, I was really looking forward this mode since Gunfire Reborn royally screwed it up too before, and it has been kind of disappointing to see Roboquest similarly tried to reinvent the wheel on the matter.

[Pile of Meat]

Originally posted by Jimmy Hunter:

Originally posted by Devilinin:

facts, i remember people being mad about the headbonk singularity on release, and while it is annoying its the correct design for the mode. change the way we play, not the stats we have.

Bunny Shield is a horrific idea and the person who came up with adding it needs a quick slap. Head Bonking as a means of REMOVING the shield is not a fun concept to play around. There's many situations where, realistically, it's going to result in you taking damage. Being forced to eat a hit over and over results in your eventual death.

Plus this ignores the fact that it's incredibly unfun to play around disrupts the flow of combat. This is doubly so when it's complete RNG when/if you see the Glitch. Especially considering this one effectively requires you to completely change how you approach every single encounter. With the Powercell economy being hot garbage, you really can't afford to be skipping out on enemies. You're losing progress towards your limited power ceiling for every Shielded enemy you skip too.

This is just another example of how poorly thought out Endless is.

Originally posted by Devilinin:

i think they wanna move on, 1.0 updates mean the game is done nowadays.

This is not a reason to add objectively bad ideas and poorly made content into a video game. We should not, under any circumstance, be okay with a company that pulls this kind of crap.

Also version number has zero bearing on if a game gets updates, bug fixes, or content. I have dozens of games in my library that are "done", yet still they continue to put out updates that add content and bug fixes. "It's 1.0, ergo the game is done" is corpro speak at best.

I got bunny shield, then I got the one that kneecaps jetpack and another that increased the CD on my grappling hook or something like that, and I was getting a ton of flying enemies. In some cases, I had to run around in circles on the last enemy until I could use grapple hook to a high place, then jetpack around above the last enemy until I could drop onto them. If it was an elite with a dash and he moved, I'd have to waste time again until my stuff came up. The glitches should not make the run near impossible like that, it's not even fun. It's just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Adanar]

Honestly, I feel like it would go a long way if they made things such as the double bosses and glitches modifiers that you can toggle on and off. Giving people the choice is often the best solution in these situations, and it surely can't be that difficult to implement.

[Otakuwolf]

Originally posted by Adanar:

Honestly, I feel like it would go a long way if they made things such as the double bosses and glitches modifiers that you can toggle on and off. Giving people the choice is often the best solution in these situations, and it surely can't be that difficult to implement.

This would be also a good solution: let people customize their run, and choose if they either want a vanilla endless run more akin to the base game or a full on hardcore one with every possibly imaginable sort of hardship.

[Reverend Slapimus]

I got the achievements and never played the mode again. Bunny shield just ruins the entire flow of the game for me.