Elementalist feels very RNG-dependant which I feel like is wrong?

[Mr. Rubber Ducky]

Don't get me wrong, elementalist is a super fun class to play (imo) but if you don't get good rolls early on then it's miserable. Your damage of Mantra and Comet become super low to the point where you just use it for the sake of squeezing extra .5% HP bar off a enemy in hopes that will be enough to finish him off.

If you can manage to get most good items during first 3 maps including getting some Element buffing perks then you're pretty much set but if you don't, well it feels like you're trying to catch a fish with your bare hands. Is it just me or anyone else feels like this?


(oh and for some reason I feel like elementalist is slower with any weapon compared to any other class which might be just me thinking but seriously while shooting it feels like i'm a snail and that's without a heavy weapon being equipped)

[Meshric]

It could just be a placebo, or perhaps it's because Elementalist is the one class without any form of speeding up his movement.

[doggysnacks]

Yea i've seen this a lot elsewhere and a good point i saw that summarized it is that elementalist both needs too many good items and perks to get going. Elementalist's perks are too weak on their own but get really really strong when synergized properly which isn't really like how the other characters upgrades tend to go. The builds are just as strong if not stronger than most other characters if you can get them going, the problem is the amount needed to do that is too high

[pi73r]

It's a single player game. Some classes are meant to be more challenging.

[Mr. Rubber Ducky]

引用自 Meshric：

It could just be a placebo, or perhaps it's because Elementalist is the one class without any form of speeding up his movement.

I guess it is a placebo playing a role in here yeah.

引用自 Maeple：

Yea i've seen this a lot elsewhere and a good point i saw that summarized it is that elementalist both needs too many good items and perks to get going. Elementalist's perks are too weak on their own but get really really strong when synergized properly which isn't really like how the other characters upgrades tend to go. The builds are just as strong if not stronger than most other characters if you can get them going, the problem is the amount needed to do that is too high

Nailed it right into the coffin, guess I just have to hope for some good items and perks to really make elementalist pop which is sometimes hard to pull out

引用自 pi73r：

It's a single player game. Some classes are meant to be more challenging.

Not the point of the thread, please re-read and then re-evaluate your answer.

[pi73r]

It exactly adresses your points lol
Yes, elementalist is "more rng dependent", that's literally the design

[doggysnacks]

The point being made here is that as it is that doesnt feel good in comparison to the other classes. Also it literally has co-op too so your point (which is a classic cop-out when comes to balancing discussion) also doesn't really work.

[pi73r]

"Doesn't feel good" is an opinion which won't be shared by everyone. If anything for me, the class suits the genre the most and is a welcoming challenge and change.
How co-op being present changes anything? I swear you just came here to disagree for the sake of it xD

[doggysnacks]

引用自 pi73r：

"Doesn't feel good" is an opinion which won't be shared by everyone. If anything for me, the class suits the genre the most and is a welcoming challenge and change.
How co-op being present changes anything? I swear you just came here to disagree for the sake of it xD

Huh? I posted my opinion in detail on this thread before you even showed up. And yes, so people are expressing such opinion as feedback for the game. Well class balance does affect a co-op game a bit more since you would be gimping your co-op partner if you took a class that is way less viable. (Not that I think elementalist is THAT bad but still). Also balance is still very important in a singleplayer game as it will change how the game is played and the variety of playstyles encouraged, no matter what kind of game balance matters. Its just that singleplayer games can afford to make things less unbalanced for either the goal of the game's direction, fun, or as you mentioned challenge.

Roboquest doesn't give me the vibe of having the elementalist be a challenge character, and I don't think the devs have said so, so just some minor tweaks to buff them up to the rest of the classes would be nice imo.

[Meshric]

引用自 Maeple：

Roboquest doesn't give me the vibe of having the elementalist be a challenge character, and I don't think the devs have said so, so just so minor tweaks to buff them up to the rest of the classes would be nice imo.

I don't think Elementalist was designed to be the challenge class. However I do believe in some capacity it was meant to be random, or atleast chaotic, evident by it's rotating element nature.

Though starting out sluggish and clunky until you level up enough to pick your esoteric skills to exponentially increase in power doesn't really capture that feeling of uncontrollable energy. Though it does remind of DnD wizards, so if they were going for that, they succeeded.

[letir]

Elementalist does feel less planned-out, probably because he didn't get EA treatment.

I think issue is threefold:
1. Passive is rather weak by itself and dosen't do much early. Changing elements is mostly a hassle, it prevent consistency and accumulation of right element. You need to invest into other skills, items and get right elemental weapons to make it really work.
2. Key synergy skills, like Dynamic Mantra and Elemental Resonance, dosen't do much by themselves. They do amplify proper groundwork manifold, but you need 1-2 other skills first.
3. Multi-element nature demand more from items and weapons. Elementalist is more core-hungry than other classes, and he need to be more picky with weapon affixes.

All of that making early game Elementalist harder. He need more effort and more prep time than other classes.

[Thundercracker]

i think elementalist highlights the severe lack of creativity in abilities and upgrades which applies to every class. a surprising number of the class abilities break down to "gives you a certain enemy's attack," or "gives you a single shot of a weapon you may not have equipped."

[Mr. Rubber Ducky]

引用自 letir：

Elementalist does feel less planned-out, probably because he didn't get EA treatment.

I think issue is threefold:
1. Passive is rather weak by itself and dosen't do much early. Changing elements is mostly a hassle, it prevent consistency and accumulation of right element. You need to invest into other skills, items and get right elemental weapons to make it really work.
2. Key synergy skills, like Dynamic Mantra and Elemental Resonance, dosen't do much by themselves. They do amplify proper groundwork manifold, but you need 1-2 other skills first.
3. Multi-element nature demand more from items and weapons. Elementalist is more core-hungry than other classes, and he need to be more picky with weapon affixes.

All of that making early game Elementalist harder. He need more effort and more prep time than other classes.

I feel like you explained it better than I ever could do, it's just a class that requires way more effort compared to other classes where you can somewhat leg it, with this one it just needs treatment from every single side.

引用自 Thundercracker：

i think elementalist highlights the severe lack of creativity in abilities and upgrades which applies to every class. a surprising number of the class abilities break down to "gives you a certain enemy's attack," or "gives you a single shot of a weapon you may not have equipped."

I mean it's still a pretty creative class but at the same time, the more abilities you have to create, the more likely you're to hit a wall where stuff just blends in to become more or so the same.

But yea I get your point, it sometimes feels that way (and it doesn't help some abilities repeat between classes)

[Frisky]

elementalist does feel kinda clunky vs the others characters, you have a lot of stuff you need to juggle like your mantra and trinity cooldown, and in general building for 1 element to me never seems to work because even if you have your element of choice cycling for longer than the others theres still akward downtime where you are much weaker which leads to the class feeling inconsistent

the only build I've found success with is building with all 3 elements and spamming my primary with the skill that makes your weapon match your mantra element, while also never using trinity or comet as they were simply too slow or unreliable (comet being random, trinity being weak than just elemental weapon spam)

they're a fun character and a cool concept, but ironically when i wanna play with elemental builds I'd rather just engineer or commando as you have much better control there

we're getting a balance update in january iirc so maybe elementalist will get some tweaks there

[Meshric]

After thinking on it, strangely Guardian already can be a diet Elementalist. Meteonade functions similar to comet, but 8t does more damage and reloads your weapon. And meteoweapon fulfills the same "random element" gimmick, and meteobubble furthers this

[WINKOИER]

Really? I always felt like Ele is that type of class that always ends up super powerful no matter what you pick as long as you focus on ele dmg. Sure, it takes time before it starts properly melting, but that's part of the class characteristic.