Please make EOS optional

[Elegant Caveman]

As soon as I launch the game, it connects to Epic's server through Epic Online Services.

Even disabling "Enable cross-platform" in settings doesn't do anything. Closing the game and relaunching it, it still connects to Epic's servers, and doesn't remain unchecked in settings.

Crossplay should be opt-in, not opt out. It's disgusting to force customers to connect to Epic's servers for a Steam game.

It's bad enough you force us to use Epic's services for multiplayer, but forcing that connection when we just want to play singleplayer, before we even try to use any multiplayer functionality? That's just adding insult to injury.

If I hadn't gotten this game through Humble Choice, I'd be getting a refund. As it is, I can only hope that you change things so I can actually play the game some day.

I've had it wishlisted for some time and was happy to see it on Choice, but this is just incredibly disappointing.

Titan Quest devs made it a launch option, please consider doing something similar.

At least with Hammerting (which also uses EOS for their multiplayer), EOS doesn't "activate" (i.e. actually connects to Epic's servers) until you access multiplayer functionality. If you can't make it a launch option, at least consider something like this, so we can play singleplayer without EOS becoming "active".

For the record, I used GlassWire[www.glasswire.com] to test connections on launch.

[Yun and the Yuns]

Hello there.

and doesn't remain unchecked in settings.

This is a bug that will be fixed, thanks for the report.

It's disgusting to force customers to connect to Epic's servers for a Steam game.

We are a very small team and EOS was the easiest, fastest and surest way for us to allow people from different platforms to play with each other (the game is currently available on Steam, GOG and Gamepass). We want everyone to be able to enjoy the game altogether and we felt like the these "pros" outweight the "cons" of using EOS. But we agree that if anything, playing offline shouldn't force you to connect to any server, whether that'd be Steam or EOS.

It's bad enough you force us to use Epic's services for multiplayer

Like mentioned above, it was the "only" way to enable cross-play between all our platforms, we're sorry if you don't like it but that's the only way for us.

but forcing that connection when we just want to play singleplayer, before we even try to use any multiplayer functionality? That's just adding insult to injury.

Right now it is the way it's made in the game, mostly because it removes any need to load things or connect while currently in the game. Changing this would require us to rework and add extra loading steps to the multiplayer menu. That's not necessarily something healthy for the user experience.

Nevertheless we totally understand your pov and we will be looking at ways to allow a "full offline" mode that doesn't connect you to any servers whatsoever.

[Elegant Caveman]

Sorry for the late reply. A mix of terminal procrastination, and being unsure how to reply, worrying about saying too much vs. too little.

Originally posted by Elliot Yun:

This is a bug that will be fixed, thanks for the report.

That's great to hear.

How is that feature supposed to work? If "Enable cross-platform" was turned off and actually working as intended, would there still be an automatic connection to Epic's servers?

If so, what's the point of even having the option?

If not, and you could make that setting opt-in instead of opt-out, that would be wonderful and about as good as could be realistically expected while still maintaining EOS functionality.

Originally posted by Elliot Yun:

We are a very small team and EOS was the easiest, fastest and surest way for us to allow people from different platforms to play with each other (the game is currently available on Steam, GOG and Gamepass).

It's hard to be mad at EOS being used for crossplay, since that's its officially-intended primary use. It's especially an understandable choice for a small team, since trying to implement that yourself from the ground up would no doubt be quite a big deal.

Originally posted by Elliot Yun:

We want everyone to be able to enjoy the game altogether and we felt like the these "pros" outweight the "cons" of using EOS.

Thing is, how many people actually care about crossplay, though?

I have a very hard time believing that anything but a tiny minority actually cares about crossplay, in any game. On top of which, I'd venture a guess that in the case of this game in particular, the attraction is primarily for the singleplayer.

As such, it seems to me that the vast majority has to suffer the cons of something they don't care about just so that a tiny minority can benefit from the pros.

I'm heavily biased, though, so it's entirely possible I'm very wrong... I don't care about multiplayer in general (for any game), and I have a burning hatred of Epic.

Originally posted by Elliot Yun:

But we agree that if anything, playing offline shouldn't force you to connect to any server, whether that'd be Steam or EOS.

Again, great to hear.

Originally posted by Elliot Yun:

Like mentioned above, it was the "only" way to enable cross-play between all our platforms, we're sorry if you don't like it but that's the only way for us.

Understandable but disappointing.

All I can say is that I'm glad I have no interest in the multiplayer.

Originally posted by Elliot Yun:

Right now it is the way it's made in the game, mostly because it removes any need to load things or connect while currently in the game. Changing this would require us to rework and add extra loading steps to the multiplayer menu. That's not necessarily something healthy for the user experience.

I'm not convinced that's really the best approach, but I'm no programmer, so I'm not really in a position to judge.

It just seems to me that an extra bit of loading at a relevant time for the relevant people is worth it to not inconvenience everybody else.

Of course, how much of a "big deal" this is obviously depends on one's opinion of Epic in general.

As a relatively new and rising indie studio, though, I hope you'll consider the reputation you're building with this title.

Of course, if you're big fans of Epic and hope to snag an exclusivity deal from them at some point, you should ignore everything I have to say, since I very much don't represent your target audience.

On the other hand, if you're not particular fans of Epic and hope to court a wider audience, I'd urge considering what good will you give up by making deals with the devil.

Originally posted by Elliot Yun:

Nevertheless we totally understand your pov and we will be looking at ways to allow a "full offline" mode that doesn't connect you to any servers whatsoever.

A "full offline" mode would be lovely and very much appreciated!

[Yun and the Yuns]

Originally posted by Elegant Caveman:

How is that feature supposed to work? If "Enable cross-platform" was turned off and actually working as intended, would there still be an automatic connection to Epic's servers?

Cross-platform or not, the game runs on Epic Online Game Services, which means that if you play multiplayer, the game will automatically connect you to these services.

Originally posted by Elegant Caveman:

If so, what's the point of even having the option?

Disabling the option makes it so you can't play with people from Gamepass, GOG or any other platforms for example.

Originally posted by Elegant Caveman:

If not, and you could make that setting opt-in instead of opt-out, that would be wonderful and about as good as could be realistically expected while still maintaining EOS functionality.

We believe people would like to play with anyone, regardless of their target platform, that's why it's enabled by default.

Originally posted by Elegant Caveman:

Thing is, how many people actually care about crossplay, though?

While we have a large share of the audience on Steam, we also have quite a lot of people on Gamepass. Allowing these players to connect with each other is a great deal for many people.

Originally posted by Elegant Caveman:

Of course, if you're big fans of Epic and hope to snag an exclusivity deal from them at some point, you should ignore everything I have to say, since I very much don't represent your target audience.

On the other hand, if you're not particular fans of Epic and hope to court a wider audience, I'd urge considering what good will you give up by making deals with the devil.

We're no lover or hater, we try to to do what seems healthy for the players and the game experience.

[Elegant Caveman]

Originally posted by Elliot Yun:

Cross-platform or not, the game runs on Epic Online Game Services, which means that if you play multiplayer, the game will automatically connect you to these services.

Disabling the option makes it so you can't play with people from Gamepass, GOG or any other platforms for example.

I guess if disabling crossplay in settings doesn't actually disable EOS itself, it's a rather moot point.

Still, an option is an option, and options are always appreciated.

Originally posted by Elliot Yun:

We believe people would like to play with anyone, regardless of their target platform, that's why it's enabled by default.

I imagine most people probably don't care one way or another, so if the option doesn't actually disable EOS anyway, that's probably fair enough.

Originally posted by Elliot Yun:

We're no lover or hater, we try to to do what seems healthy for the players and the game experience.

Seems we simply strongly disagree on what's healthy for the players and the game experience, then. Such is life, and it's your game.

Well, I look forward to the offline mode, if that ever comes to pass.

Good luck, and thanks for taking the time to explain the situation/your position.

[Dark70]

Originally posted by Yun and the Yuns:

Originally posted by Elegant Caveman:

How is that feature supposed to work? If "Enable cross-platform" was turned off and actually working as intended, would there still be an automatic connection to Epic's servers?

Cross-platform or not, the game runs on Epic Online Game Services, which means that if you play multiplayer, the game will automatically connect you to these services.

Originally posted by Elegant Caveman:

If so, what's the point of even having the option?

Disabling the option makes it so you can't play with people from Gamepass, GOG or any other platforms for example.

Originally posted by Elegant Caveman:

If not, and you could make that setting opt-in instead of opt-out, that would be wonderful and about as good as could be realistically expected while still maintaining EOS functionality.

We believe people would like to play with anyone, regardless of their target platform, that's why it's enabled by default.

Originally posted by Elegant Caveman:

Thing is, how many people actually care about crossplay, though?

While we have a large share of the audience on Steam, we also have quite a lot of people on Gamepass. Allowing these players to connect with each other is a great deal for many people.

Originally posted by Elegant Caveman:

Of course, if you're big fans of Epic and hope to snag an exclusivity deal from them at some point, you should ignore everything I have to say, since I very much don't represent your target audience.

On the other hand, if you're not particular fans of Epic and hope to court a wider audience, I'd urge considering what good will you give up by making deals with the devil.

We're no lover or hater, we try to to do what seems healthy for the players and the game
experience.

[Tim]

This thread was quite old before the recent post, so we're locking it to prevent confusion.