Commando survivability

[Sycophant]

I really, really feel like Commando's abilities rely on getting multiple good perks to make a decent build for them, but they're pretty lacklustre without that and offer basically 0 damage mitigation tactics. I really like him conceptually, but his abilities aren't outputting enough damage to make up for his total inability to block anything like Guardian or get stealth like Recon (who has an absolutely incredible perk that allows you to fire while stealthed that's far beyond anything I saw on commando)

[Han]

I've sent the same feedback today! And i totally agree with you. with commando i wanna be that doom guy with a shotgun, but survivability says otherwise.I can go in but can't get out.They gotta give him some survivability for aggressive play style.

[Sycophant]

Just beat my first full heroes run as Guardian, his perks end up giving his shield and his punch better stats than commandos AND he has the whole actual shield thing going for him, the enemies turn into such damage sponges it's insane. I had 19 robo with the jack of all guns perk giving me basically doubled damage on everything along with the cryo punch perk that froze basically anything and had a 3 second cooldown along with the 50% higher firerate whenever the shield was deployed, NONE of commandos perks even come close to being as useful in terms of damage as this and then he has no survivability on top of it
I do definitely love him conceptually though and I trust the devs to add a whole bunch more content and balancing etc so I'm very excited :) Guardian's shield should probably drain like 20 energy upon deploy to prevent it from being able to be fanned so easily though, currently you can deploy it to block something then immediately undeploy it again and lose basically no energy

[Han]

Oh, that's really op.It's like their creativity burst with first classes and somehow ended pretty badly on commando haha.Well... overall game is pretty nice, and i hope same things from devs.Lets wait and see.

[Brolando]

How many heroes difficulty levels are there anyway? I'm up to +6 atm, but I've actually done most of that as commando, he actually outputs a lot more damage than you realise and if you keep moving and use cover appropriately then he really doesn't need any forms of damage mitigation.

His burn damage shouldn't be underestimated and he is amazing with heavy weapons, because you can build him to not suffer any movement penalties from them all while making him do more consistent burn damage with the same perk.

[Madine]

I have no problem beating the game with any character except commando, and I think that the big difference is not having any means of defense to get some breathing room. I can go nuts and kill really fast (and collect blue orbs) with the other 3 robots because the have that safe space button (mainly in ambush rooms), which means that the player can keep moving without WAITING behind cover (and losing EXP) like commando has to do, since he has no defense mechanism.

Sure, there will be good players that enjoy a more paused gameplay using cover, but for me, this game is not about that, so for me commando feels a bit off compared to the others.

[Gem of Temporarity]

Originally posted by Madine:

Sure, there will be good players that enjoy a more paused gameplay using cover

Are you sure that good players don't just dodge everything, removing the need for cover entirely?

[Madine]

Originally posted by Gem of Temporarity:

Originally posted by Madine:

Sure, there will be good players that enjoy a more paused gameplay using cover

Are you sure that good players don't just dodge everything, removing the need for cover entirely?

The typical elitist-passive-aggressive comment expected in an internet forum, you can't dodge everything in this game, you are going to get hit at least once in a while.

Anyway, I didn't say that good players are only those who use cover (hell, I barely use cover I just move and shoot and jump non stop, but someone COULD prefer using that method). I was just comparing commando with the other 3 classes and how they allow for a more aggressive playstyle with less penalties, that is the point of my response.

Sure, I can dodge for hours and hours if I stay far from enemies and playing really passive/sniping, but if you want to enjoy a more aggressive style, get the EXP and kill fast to have a good score by moving and jumping between enemies, you are eventually going to get hit sometimes. The other 3 characters allow this playstyle better in my opinion, and command's rocket is just more damage with no utility.

[Slayer-43]

Would be nice if he gained some damage resistance with increased rage levels.

[Yun and the Yuns]

Originally posted by Slayer-43:

Would be nice if he gained some damage resistance with increased rage levels.

In our latest internal testing, we're trying out rage with a damage reduction component.

[Slayer-43]

Originally posted by Elliot Yun:

Originally posted by Slayer-43:

Would be nice if he gained some damage resistance with increased rage levels.

In our latest internal testing, we're trying out rage with a damage reduction component.

Nice

[Dollop of Mayo]

Commando's my favorite class, and I only play on Normal so I might be talking to people trying to win on max difficulty and running into a wall that I haven't even tried to climb, but I'm regularly able to kill Beetle Royale. Not bragging, just, I find Commando to be extremely powerful. The best defense is a good offense and all that. Dead enemies can't hurt you. Unless they explode in your face.

I try to prioritize the rocket (of course when you get talents to get more rocket charges, it's much better) for attacking either a couple of weak enemies clumped together or one "big" target like one of the humanoid robots or the nastier turrets (esp. the sniper turret and the one that stuns you) and then finishing them off with whatever weapon you have in hand. That seems to make things go pretty smoothly. But maybe that's super obvious and there's better advice for playing Commando.

I will say that I try to get the Shield perk ASAP on Commando since I've tried runs without even the 1st level of it and they've been much, much harder.

I'm not saying Commando is perfect, maybe it does need tweaks, and my recklessly aggressive playstyle means I have an easier time with it than others might. I know I fail at Recon because I lack the patience for stealth in games.

[Melonberry]

i am not sure it needs tweaking. for me the extra fire power and using triple jump got me my first completed run. found this character much easier for how i play.

I did have a few scrapes where my health was super low. but i guess thats the risk with commando.

[SilkStalker980]

I've played commando the most, and I think he's the most fun personally. I usually use 3 weapons and that seems to mitigate the lack of anything else from his kit. I think the main thing with these games, and in particular is the need to jump and slide a lot more than you would think. Sliding mitigates, or allows you to dodge their projectiles a good bit more than just back and forward strafing.

[Dollop of Mayo]

Alright I've come back around on this since playing on Heroes difficulty up to 6

Which is to say I've beaten Heroes 6 only with Guardian, with no real issues (other than it becomes frankly boring to shoot the bullet sponges forever, especially with some guns like the Uzi, which may as well not exist on Heroes), but with the other classes, Heroes 3+ is a struggle, but ESPECIALLY with Commando. Guardian feels completely overpowered exactly due to its vastly superior damage negation special AND built-in shield.

Shield seems 100% necessary to progress and therefore a required skill to take, otherwise you end up getting whittled down to 0 health in no time. Dodging is all well and good but there's so many times I've walked around the corner into a facefull of bullet that I had no idea was headed my way and there's SO much spam from enemies on higher difficulties that it seems unreasonable to expect you to dodge 100% of it.

And so we get to the Commando, who has nothing but offense, but it's single-target offense for the most part, the explosion radius on the rockets is TINY. (That's when they decide to hit the target you're aiming at instead of something else or a wall) So you basically must take shield to have a chance, but without an OP damage shield to make you literally invincible for a few seconds, drones to soak up some of the spam, or the ability to turn invisible and reposition, the Commando struggles on higher difficulties.

IMO a base level of shield should be the default for ALL the classes, and what the dev said earlier about Fury providing some damage mitigation would be really nice, and allow for more aggressive gameplay, which it really feels like this game is promoting.

[Aurabai]

Originally posted by Madine:

Originally posted by Gem of Temporarity:

Are you sure that good players don't just dodge everything, removing the need for cover entirely?

The typical elitist-passive-aggressive comment expected in an internet forum, you can't dodge everything in this game, you are going to get hit at least once in a while.

Anyway, I didn't say that good players are only those who use cover (hell, I barely use cover I just move and shoot and jump non stop, but someone COULD prefer using that method). I was just comparing commando with the other 3 classes and how they allow for a more aggressive playstyle with less penalties, that is the point of my response.

Sure, I can dodge for hours and hours if I stay far from enemies and playing really passive/sniping, but if you want to enjoy a more aggressive style, get the EXP and kill fast to have a good score by moving and jumping between enemies, you are eventually going to get hit sometimes. The other 3 characters allow this playstyle better in my opinion, and command's rocket is just more damage with no utility.

How was that elitist or passive-aggressive? This game is an FPS Bullet Hell, and BH players are FAMOUS for being able to dodge projectiles. I'd say it's pretty elitist of yourself to assume that someone couldn't dodge any better than you could in a high-octane playstyle.

Give it 7-odd months, let the game have a birthday, and this community will be absolutely crawling with no-hit challenge videos.