new core based mechanic?

[Hearts]

I've noticed some people complaining about the lack of depth in the rougelike elements since this game carries itself more on arena fights with tight movement and gunplay, so I thought maybe a third mechanic might add some depth to runs.

I was think about maybe attaching certain affixes to cores that change how abilities, weapons or perks work, something like a robo core that has "your ability has an extra charge but it's duration, size, damage are reduced by 25%" or an assault core with "you can fire while sprinting but have reduced damage while standing still" or something like that.

I really like the game so far and have been happy with it since I first bought it. Thanks for making the game and keep up the good work!

[Brolando]

Those are some pretty cool ideas tbh, I think that with random loot that just stat increases tend to be very boring, a lot of affixes are like that though.

I would like to see more affixes that directly impact gameplay, when it comes to rogue-likes elements maybe they can take some inspiration from Gunfire Reborn, because that's a rogue-like fps where the movement and gunplay isn't as tight as it is in this game, but it does nail its rogue-like elements.

This could also just be the rogue-like shooter for people who want satisfying gunplay and tight movement though.

[Buntkreuz]

Yeah agreed.
The Affixes are quite blant, only like two are actually changing the weapon behaviour (piercing and bouncing).
The rest is just some stats increase.

I know its tough work, but i feel like there should be Affixes completely changing a weapons behaviour.
Like, a Bow shooting Laser instead of an Arrow dealing Laserdamage, a Revolver shooting like a shotgun, a Minigun shooting little rockets, maybe when you get an Affix those Missiles are turned into Homing Missiles, etc.

You can transfer this idea and general feeling of Affixes impacting gameplay on any part of the game.
Right now i feel like the devs are too careful with those. Its easier to just give a weapon a plus in attack speed, and even thats already tricky enough.
Let alone changing a weapons behaviour.

However, it would take the game from an A-Class Shooter to an S-Class Shooter.

Again, i know its tough work, but Affixes are relatively new in the game and i hope they continue adding much more crazy things to that part.

[Cyber Kitten]

Originally posted by Argentum:

Yeah agreed.
The Affixes are quite blant, only like two are actually changing the weapon behaviour (piercing and bouncing).
The rest is just some stats increase.

I know its tough work, but i feel like there should be Affixes completely changing a weapons behaviour.
Like, a Bow shooting Laser instead of an Arrow dealing Laserdamage, a Revolver shooting like a shotgun, a Minigun shooting little rockets, maybe when you get an Affix those Missiles are turned into Homing Missiles, etc.

You can transfer this idea and general feeling of Affixes impacting gameplay on any part of the game.
Right now i feel like the devs are too careful with those. Its easier to just give a weapon a plus in attack speed, and even thats already tricky enough.
Let alone changing a weapons behaviour.

However, it would take the game from an A-Class Shooter to an S-Class Shooter.

Again, i know its tough work, but Affixes are relatively new in the game and i hope they continue adding much more crazy things to that part.

As cool as those ideas are, i would prefer stat affixes over revolvers shooting missiles.

That seems really wack and weird. Not even Borderlands had those type of combinations with affixes (i may be wrong) but they did have explosive bullets for their revolvers at times.

I would prefer having different guns that shot differently instead of making them affixes. That creates a lot more variety and enhances on the RogueLike aspect of the game.

I think affixes need to be along the lines of 30-50% extra crit damage, extra mag capacity, multishot, etc. Not just +20% damage / -20% speed kind of affixes. Leaving guns to having actual properties gives these affixes more desire. Finding a rocket launcher that shoots a mortar shot as a mechanic combined with multishot affix interests me, and finding really accurate snipers or pistols (that may get buffs on crit) with extra crit damage affix sounds really cool too. All randomized of course so finding these are a real treat.

I think this type of variety calls out to me the most, but we'll see what they come up with in the new update.

[Buntkreuz]

Originally posted by Cyber Kitten:

Originally posted by Argentum:

Yeah agreed.
The Affixes are quite blant, only like two are actually changing the weapon behaviour (piercing and bouncing).
The rest is just some stats increase.

I know its tough work, but i feel like there should be Affixes completely changing a weapons behaviour.
Like, a Bow shooting Laser instead of an Arrow dealing Laserdamage, a Revolver shooting like a shotgun, a Minigun shooting little rockets, maybe when you get an Affix those Missiles are turned into Homing Missiles, etc.

You can transfer this idea and general feeling of Affixes impacting gameplay on any part of the game.
Right now i feel like the devs are too careful with those. Its easier to just give a weapon a plus in attack speed, and even thats already tricky enough.
Let alone changing a weapons behaviour.

However, it would take the game from an A-Class Shooter to an S-Class Shooter.

Again, i know its tough work, but Affixes are relatively new in the game and i hope they continue adding much more crazy things to that part.

As cool as those ideas are, i would prefer stat affixes over revolvers shooting missiles.

That seems really wack and weird. Not even Borderlands had those type of combinations with affixes (i may be wrong) but they did have explosive bullets for their revolvers at times.

Fair, its your opinion.
But Borderlands had that.
It had super whack stuff and affixes for weapons.

However, it must not be super whack as "my example".
They were just examples to give a glimpse. They should highlight that my point was, that the current affixes are a bit generic and typical and i would hope that they go a bit more crazy with them.

As said, they already have some. Bullets can bounce and pierce, so i dont see why other weapons and their projectiles could get projectile alternating affixes.
Bouncing rockets sounds super useless but also incredibly fun.
An Affix that increases attack speed of a weapon by 100% but reduces its damage by 50% could also be whacky fun.
Such stuff allows for more nice and interesting combinations and is a really good selling point for the game.
Is what i wanted to say.

[Shaalanaar]

borderlands had plenty of weird guns, Logan's gun was a pistol with ammo that would explode once on contact, then again after a few seconds, just as an example

[Buntkreuz]

if im not mistaken there also was a gun using your money as ammo.

[Cyber Kitten]

I mean, yeah. I played a fair bit of Borderlands to know some of the weapons. I just meant i never seen them use affixes to affect their weapons like Argentum's examples.

I realize what you were trying to say, but i was just pointing out i prefer weapons to have their own mechanics like Borderlands did while affixes being less super impactful.

Revolvers shooting missiles is cool... i just don't think it should come from a precision pistol getting a random role on an affix to shoot missiles. It should be that weapons specific mechanic that comes with it, while rolling for actual affixes on top of that.

Do you see what i mean?

Plus when i think of missiles i think of actual missiles. I wouldn't be opposed to affixes giving guns explosives bullets on the other hand.

[Buntkreuz]

Originally posted by Cyber Kitten:

I mean, yeah. I played a fair bit of Borderlands to know some of the weapons. I just meant i never seen them use affixes to affect their weapons like Argentum's examples.

I realize what you were trying to say, but i was just pointing out i prefer weapons to have their own mechanics like Borderlands did while affixes being less super impactful.

Revolvers shooting missiles is cool... i just don't think it should come from a precision pistol getting a random role on an affix to shoot missiles. It should be that weapons specific mechanic that comes with it, while rolling for actual affixes on top of that.

Do you see what i mean?

Plus when i think of missiles i think of actual missiles. I wouldn't be opposed to affixes giving guns explosives bullets on the other hand.

Yeah sure. But at last Affixes can be balanced and assigned.
I mean, you dont just add Affixes to a pool, thats not how development works.
They can decide which weapon can have which affix, i mean, thats how it works right now anyway.
The problem with your view on it, having a gun that does X and then gets an Affix on top is that you throw tons of weapons into the random weapon pool.
The Affixes cause that you find a weapon you are interested in and look whether the Affixes it has are suited for your playstyle.
The problem your system would cause is, that i wouldnt even find a weapon i like in the first place, because you have a weapon for every minor variant.
Which would mean, if you like the standard precision pistol, then with your system you would find ten variants of it instead of the actual precision pistol.
The same goes for every gun in the game.
I dont need 10 Flamethrowers all just with minor changes.
Instead its better to actually find 3 Flamethrowers in a session and pick the one that has an Affix i have a use of.
At last, you can reroll Affixes anyway.


Missiles btw was just one example.
Its simply a skin for a projectile.
But they explode already if you choose the right perk, so thats in the game right now.

But bullets and actual rockets/grenades etc behave differently.
So an Affix actually changing the project type of lets say a bullet weapon to, for example, it shooting explosives changes which perks apply to it.

I personally think that behaviour altering affixes could be more fun than just projectile variations.
As mentioned, those are just popular examples.
Im more in favor of stuff like playing with accuracy, attack speed or other behaviours.
Imagine a Minigun having negative Accuracy causing it to spread super wide, but it gets +100% Magazine Size.
It would go hitting whatever all over the screen, but be absolute garbage for precise killing.
Such changes allow for experimenting and they have their uses.
Quite some games use such altering stats on weapons to change their behaviour and its fun to try out new strategies with them.
A shotgun with a random Affix giving it a plus on precision causes it to deal tons of damage on one single target, a sniper gaining Burst Fire etc.

You can do lots.
I personally, my opinion, think that would be cool.
And as said, the game has a glimpse of that already.
If you think thats stupid, absolutely cool with me. Your opinion.

[Cyber Kitten]

Its not stupid. And sure its my opinion, but i like discussing this kind of stuff, especially here where it can become feedback. Don't feel bad if i come at your points. Its just building on ideas.

But i can already see myself getting upset when i see a Recon sniper rifle and going "ooOOh" then going "awww" when i realize it shoots explosive rockets. Ya know?

It kind of goes into what you explained earlier. If it changes the projectile from bullet to explosive then whats the point of the sniper when you could just get a destruction weapon.

If the explosion was just an added on affix, like 15% of bullet damage turned into an AOE explosion on top of the bullet damage then it would work, especially if it did more damage on a crit since its a sniper rifle. Then it scales on both damage types, but more on bullet damage since if you want a sniper you are most likely going for a crit build. (I think this is in the game already actually i haven't played in months)

You also have to remember that they have special core stats that increase certain damage types. It would be bad to build for a precision run and then get a precision sniper that turned its damage into destruction.

I also like the ideas you gave at the end with more mag size and less accuracy. It would also be cool if the stats given to guns was + + -, so you can get 2 positive buffs and one negative one. Like you said, + mag size + faster shooting - accuracy.

Thats why i think stat affixes are cool. You can still change how a gun functions without removing the core purpose of a gun, like i said finding a sniper on your crit build only to realize it changed from bullet damage to explosive that can't crit.

[Cyber Kitten]

Also, the idea you gave of a weapon changing its damage type is really good too if its done properly.

A great Roguelike that mastered doing that is Dead Cells. Every weapon in that game is either normal, or "colorless" and legendary. You have to be really lucky to get legendary and lots of skill for a colorless.

Weapons in that game have damage types that scale of different stats. So you can't really use a shield in its full potential doing a throwing weapon run. But legendary and colorless weapons scale of your highest stat and gives variety in a Roguelike.

I think this would work great when finding a sniper in this game on a destruction run and having it role to scale off your destruction stat by shooting pure explosive shots.

[Buntkreuz]

Originally posted by Cyber Kitten:

Its not stupid. And sure its my opinion, but i like discussing this kind of stuff, especially here where it can become feedback. Don't feel bad if i come at your points. Its just building on ideas.

But i can already see myself getting upset when i see a Recon sniper rifle and going "ooOOh" then going "awww" when i realize it shoots explosive rockets. Ya know?

It kind of goes into what you explained earlier. If it changes the projectile from bullet to explosive then whats the point of the sniper when you could just get a destruction weapon.

If the explosion was just an added on affix, like 15% of bullet damage turned into an AOE explosion on top of the bullet damage then it would work, especially if it did more damage on a crit since its a sniper rifle. Then it scales on both damage types, but more on bullet damage since if you want a sniper you are most likely going for a crit build. (I think this is in the game already actually i haven't played in months)

You also have to remember that they have special core stats that increase certain damage types. It would be bad to build for a precision run and then get a precision sniper that turned its damage into destruction.

I also like the ideas you gave at the end with more mag size and less accuracy. It would also be cool if the stats given to guns was + + -, so you can get 2 positive buffs and one negative one. Like you said, + mag size + faster shooting - accuracy.

Thats why i think stat affixes are cool. You can still change how a gun functions without removing the core purpose of a gun, like i said finding a sniper on your crit build only to realize it changed from bullet damage to explosive that can't crit.

Yeah i get that.
But i mean, there are ways to balance that stuff possibly so you dont have to go "awww" when its not what you like.

Maybe they could even build some more campupgrades on that.
See, currently there are these gaming machines where you can add an Affix to a weapon.
What about if those special weapon changing Affixes arent on weapons by default but you can add them through using those machines.

So lets say you get your sniper and it has its common buffs, like an expanded magazine.
You can activate the gaming machine and it offers you three choices.
2 choices add a common buff, the third erases all current Affixes from the Weapon and gives it a premium unique Affix.

So, you can either improve the weapon you have further and it stays the way it is, or you go the Whacky route and change its behaviour.

How does that sound?
Its just an example on how to maybe solve the issue you might have with it.
There are more ways to address any issue, whether its balance or whatever.

[Cyber Kitten]

That would honestly be the best type of progression for a weapon. Having premium affixes be really rare and make players risk to gamble for a good one, or randomly be given a choice for one unexpectedly is totally something that would make this game more a roguelike. Especially when its player choice instead of it just giving you a random one when upgrading a weapon at a machine.

Hopefully they do something along those lines in the future. Not that i'm expecting it but i hope that what they have is just as good.

[Buntkreuz]

Me too