Party racial composition: bonuses and drawbacks

[Relle]

Big ol' question. I'm stuck at the party creation screen, wondering if the extra trait every four levels is worthwhile enough to go with an all-human party. On the other hand, if I did so, would I miss out on content that requires having a Nephil or Slith (quests, lore, etc.)? While I know you can beat the game with pretty much any party comp, I want to do something goofy this time around and just go pure fighter-mages.

[-Na Shagul-]

Honestly I don't know much about racial bonuses in the remakes, I know in the original Sliths got major boosts to str and pole weapons and stuff like that but I'm not so sure how much they're still around in these games? I find the extra traits way more appealing in the remakes since the skill list has been mega snipped from its original rendition.

I know some npcs react differently to a nephil and or a slith being in your party but I'm not sure if their presence is necessary to unlock special lore pieces or any secrets, but I could very well be wrong

[Daredeviler_21]

I found a nephil hideout that gave a quest because I had a nephil, also I've had empire guards attack me on the world map cause I had a slith, and got scared, so there is some things that matter.

[MightyFox]

The nephil and slith bonuses are mild compared to what they used to be, with 10% bow damage and 10% polearm damage respectively. Miss the days they would get free stat points in Gymnastics, Bows, and Polearms, for experience penalties. Honestly, it's quite the downgrade, especially since humans get two traits every 4 levels, making them quite a bit better overall.

In game having them causes certain actions

Having a nephil will help other nephil on the surface to trust you, unlocking quest and trading opportunites. Empirial soldiers will distrust you, but so far I've seen very little from it save for a few insults and slurs.

I haven't found any bonus events yet for having a slith, but the penalty is that several imperial patrols will attack you, as they have no idea what a "lizardman" is.

[Relle]

I think I'm going to end up going two humans, two Nephil. The humans will be my initial melee and end up as mage-knights, and the Nephil will start out as casters.

[Toren_S [Also Friendly]]

I haven't seen any 'pro-slith' events yet that I've noticed, although a few times people have commented without stabbings. Definitely had 'anti-slith' events where I get attacked.

Plenty of pro and anti nephil events.

I'm sure there are some benefits, but I've run 2 humans (priest/mage), 1 nephil (archer), 1 slith (warrior) in every single Avernum game and it will probably never change no matter whether it's any good :)

[MrStobo]

Human, to my mind, is best for any build other than DPS archer or poles.

That being said, my Nephil archer is like a walking atillery platform. Did they buff archery for this game?

[-Na Shagul-]

I feel like archery might have been buffed, it definitely feels far more viable than it used to be

[Toren_S [Also Friendly]]

Archery's always been viable. It's not 'optimal' maybe, but an archer build with a ton of dex is almost impossible to hit and sniper/sharpshooter do some pretty extreme and consistent output. I often leave the archer at the front lines surrounded by enemies shooting at the mages while the enemies fail to hit him with 5% chance. Late game you can consider giving the archer enough mage skills to cast the teleport but usually I just Call the Storm or 'swap' him away from enemies with the warrior.

I play on Hard, not Torment, so maybe that's where 'not viable' comes from, unsure.

That said, I think it might be stronger in this game than prior ones.

[Relle]

I feel like archery's pretty strong to begin with. For my two nephil casters, without even the appropriate stats, their shots do about as much as the single-target spells (firebolt and smite, or whatever) but with no energy cost. I'm inclined to start allocating some points toward dex and sniper.

[monkeydave]

Spiderweb Software forums have a lot of really in depth discussions on mechanics and optimization from die hard fans who really get down to the nitty gritty of the code.

[Toren_S [Also Friendly]]

Yeah, if you want to go into the insane Torment or solo-Torment playthroughs those people do you have to optimize everything. But I've always had my archer be my primary single target damage dealer in most of these games. They can't beat mages/priests spamming the best spells while battle frenzied but it also doesn't obliterate your mana.

[Meviin]

If you're a min-maxer, your party should be 4 humans. Having the extra traits is huge, and it is a more significant gameplay benefit than the weapon bonuses or any of the race-specific events.

If you want to play a slith and/or nephil for roleplay reasons, then do so.

My party is 2 humans, 1 slith, and 1 nephil (because I always do that for roleplay reasons). Also, I have 2 melee, one mage/priest, and one priest (also because I always do that). Neither of those are optimal, but I'm still doing fine in torment. So, play what you want, and don't worry too much about it :)

[mcsproot]

As for totally missing out on some things, I can't really say. Some NPCs do make reference to having Nephs and Sliths in your party.

However, having them in your party can also lead to bad times. I think there is a village in the far south east that can turn permanently hostile if you run into the nearby guard patrols more than once. They give you a warning the first time, the second time they attack and this turns the town hostile.

Many guards in the south west near Dilan/Dilas (somewhere like that) will turn hostile instantly if you have a Slith in your party as well.

[Mattimeo78]

Running an archer in my current Torment playthrough. Romulus, who has some points in Tool Use/First Aid/Nature Lore well outperforms Remus who has no points anywhere but the first column, and that's without factoring in Sharpshooter/Sniper procs or Frenzy use. Was surprised.

On the point of racial selection, Human all the way. I don't see 10% Pole/Bow damage and 10% element resistance at all worth missing out on the eight extra traits a Human gets. Like, seriously, no contest.

[Toren_S [Also Friendly]]

If you're running an archer, Nephil's probably still better than Human for raw damage. The 8 extra traits aren't really needed except for casters who can sink a bunch into blessing/elemental/healing. You still have enough for dexterity 5, endurance 5 and.. sure shot? 3 (whichever one is bows damage). Bow accuracy is pointless when you have all the dexterity anyway.

I'd have to say slith probably isn't worth it, I saw no pro-slith events, only anti-slith ones (I'm sure there must be a benefit somewhere in the world but I didn't notice it!), and pole damage is good but if you have an archer your other guy typically needs to be the tanker and so the +10% pole damage is unexciting. I still make one because I always make one.