I'm legitimately disappointed in this game.

[Coxis]

I have been a fan since the very first game. I got the first game on PS3 and got the Platinum trophy.

Either way, I'm severely disappointed at the combat. Enemies in the past games used to be realy tough, especially in hard difficulty, which is also gone! Goblin arrows and attacks were fast and unforgiving, and these new dogs and goats that telegraph their attacks in slow motion are way too easy to dodge. Even the only three real fights in the game, the Pontius, Zoya and Prince fights, which could've been extremely fun (especially the latter two) are laughably easy. There is absolutely no incentive of not having your characters die or being careful, since they're immediately made available again. Previous game punished carelessness by having to run to previous checkpoints to revive them. At this point why even have the health / life and death mechanic?

I mean I love that the game returned to 2d, especially after the Trine 3 failure, I also love the new character designs, their personalities and the long levels, those are all positives, but man, you can't just flat out reduce a very important aspect of the game just like that. It doesn't do the series any justice.

Amadeus was hit the hardest. You removed his small boxes and the ability to conjure boxes anywhere on the screen by drawing them with the mouse, that was so fun. I'm so sad that you guys decided to dumb down the game like this.

Sincerely,
An old fan.

[JLarja]

Originally posted by Coxis:

I have been a fan since the very first game. I got the first game on PS3 and got the Platinum trophy. I don't remember very well, but I think the game released on PS3 before even being on Steam.

As I'm not a designer, I don't want to comment the actual content of your message. Just correct this small error of release dates: Trine was released on Windows couple of months before PS3 (July vs. September/October, if Wikipedia is right and I believe it is).

-JLarja / Frozenbyte

[crizzl]

Yes, combat is the weak point in Trine 4. Generic action bubbles filled with unvarying, lame enemies is not fun. Even if you are going to add hard mode with more and stronger monsters I'm afraid players will get nothing more than a higher grade of frustration.

[Bloonis]

I enjoyed every minute of Trine 4, including the combat. Surely Trine 4 is a bit different than Trine 2, but still a very fun and enjoyable game to play, especially with friends. All the Trine games have been an exceptional online, gaming journey for me and I am looking forward to more Trine games in the future.

[Butterman']

For me i totally love Trine 4. Iam happy that they cancelled what they started with Trine 3.
Stopped playing Trine 3 in the middle of the game because it was no fun.

So for me Trine 4 is a succes and a really great and loving game!

[Terepin]

Originally posted by Coxis:

Amadeus was hit the hardest. You removed his small boxes and the ability to conjure boxes anywhere on the screen by drawing them with the mouse, that was so fun. I'm so sad that you guys decided to dumb down the game like this.

If you could conjure anything anywhere, you could bypass a lot of puzzles. Which is really weird that you would want this, since a couple of lines higher you were complaining about the game being too easy. So what is it then, Einstein? Is it, or is it not too easy?

[Coxis]

Originally posted by Terepin:

Originally posted by Coxis:

Amadeus was hit the hardest. You removed his small boxes and the ability to conjure boxes anywhere on the screen by drawing them with the mouse, that was so fun. I'm so sad that you guys decided to dumb down the game like this.

If you could conjure anything anywhere, you could bypass a lot of puzzles. Which is really weird that you would want this, since a couple of lines higher you were complaining about the game being too easy. So what is it then, Einstein? Is it, or is it not too easy?

It's too easy.

[Terepin]

Right. Amadeus was "nerfed" because of puzzles and puzzles are the pinnacle of Trine 4.

[mapron]

"Enemies in the past games used to be realy tough"

" Generic action bubbles filled with unvarying, lame enemies is not fun"

What? I'm playing on easy and it's a nightmare. I somehow managed to play on normal in previous games. But in Trine 4 everything just one-shot you... I replayed every combat phase 3-5 times.

Now I'm started a DLC and it's getting even worse...

[Coxis]

Originally posted by mapron:

"Enemies in the past games used to be realy tough"

" Generic action bubbles filled with unvarying, lame enemies is not fun"

What? I'm playing on easy and it's a nightmare. I somehow managed to play on normal in previous games. But in Trine 4 everything just one-shot you... I replayed every combat phase 3-5 times.

Now I'm started a DLC and it's getting even worse...

Seems to me you either didn't play the first two or you're just not very good. T4 combat is a serious downgrade and the weakest point in the game IMO.

[mapron]

No God, please, don't touch the fights, I'm already struggling with them a lot in easy difficulty! Trine was always a puzzle game for me, and fights should not be the focus, just a refresher to not fall asleep, and that's it. In DLC fights were sooo hard that I almost though about abondoning the game.

"Seems to me you either didn't play the first two or you're just not very good."
I finished all Trine games. Maybe I became worse in fights since then, but for good platformer fighting there are other games - Hollow Knight etc (I finished HK btw)


One other thing came to me - when you playing battle-focused game, you stay focused for a long time. But in trine battle is usually just unexpected stress between chill periods - you can't just mobilize in a second for a battle. When I play Doom I have right vibe for whole peroid of gaming, same for Hollow Knight, but for Trine it's just a break!

[Malidictus]

I'm going to approach this in two ways:

Firstly: If you're looking for challenging combat and punishing enemies, Trine is not the right franchise for you. Yes, it has never been particularly "hard." Dark Souls this ain't. Trine is a puzzle game, and combat works best when it's complex, not when it's difficult. The reason I and many others praise Trine 2's combat isn't because it was "hard." Rather, I praise it because it took place in the actual environment where players could take advantage of pits, spikes, traps and existing geometry. Combat arenas weren't limited to just "one screen" which made for larger play areas and lower enemy density. With some exceptions, enemies had fairly low EHP and few if any homing projectiles or dash attacks. Overall, Trine 2's combat was slower and more methodical, which turned into more of a puzzle and less of a button-masher.

Secondly: I agree that combat in Trine 4 is awful in an unsalvageable way. Combat arenas are tiny and cramped with enemies, most enemies have homing or AoE projectiles and even basic enemies have way too much health. What this results in is a lot of button-mashing as we chip at the health bars of spongey enemies and randomly mash dodge in any direction to avoid the constant barrage of damage and bodies. On top of this, the mechanics actively penalise the player. Platforms will block Zoya's arrows, Pontius' shield can only take a few hits before breaking, few pits and hazards exist for Amadeus to take advantage of, etc.

Now, I understand the idea here. It's pretty clear the developers wanted a "directed" combat experience. Relative to Trine 2, Trine 4 is a much more directed game, with puzzles having more restrictions in terrain and tools. It makes sense, then, that combat would lock off an area and present a crafted setpiece. The problem is that the speed and density of combat is substantially out-of-scope with the rest of the game and the precision of the controls. If and when a Trine 5 happens, I hope that we go back to the in-world fights, where we can use puzzle pieces, terrain and hazards to our advantage.

[mapron]

Malidictus, thank you so much. You had nicely say that battles became too unconnected to main mechanics. Totally agree.

[KeroHazel]

I think Frozenbyte is actively trying to make combat worse with each iteration. It's the only explanation that makes sense. It's too bad, really. I thought this game had the most creative and fun puzzles in the series, but the combat is so awful that I honestly can't recommend this to anyone.

[RageOfPerun]

I feel Trine 4 was made to "please ALL" - have easy puzzles, easy combat, cookie cutter level design, on the ropes story line.. I understand that Frozenbyte could not afford a failure yet when you make a game for all at the same time you make a game for none.

I just hope Trine 5 dares to risk something, even if only in "optional" content - T4 fealt like a rollercoster ride, yes it was fun, but you are on-the-rails all the time and cant do anything not designed or intended while safely strapped in by a harness

I think the strong point of Trine is the physics based puzzles - Make Physics Great Again!
(make them challenging enough that you actually have to use more than 10% of the brain to solve)

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by RageOfPerun:

I think the strong point of Trine is the physics based puzzles - Make Physics Great Again!
(make them challenging enough that you actually have to use more than 10% of the brain to solve)

Strongly disagree here. As much fun as Trine 1 and 2 were for their physics-based puzzles, it felt more like a fad chasing the at-the-time newish physics simulations. A lot of the Trine 1 puzzles aren't really "puzzles." They're just open spaces where you're supposed to goof around with the physics, then stack boxes to move on. Trine 2 attempted to remedy this by introducing a lot of limitations which bar the use of stacked boxes, but ended up with very janky puzzles as a result. Far too often, puzzle solutions feel less like I'm solving actual puzzles and more like I'm trying to find ways to break the physics engine. Can I cause Zoya to stand straight up on her "rope?" Can I glitch boxes to lainch me? Can I jam plans in the 2 pixels where they won't slide off?

I vastly prefer Trine 4's puzzles over Trine 2's for the same reason I prefer Portal 2's puzzles over Portal's. The former is designed. The latter is just puzzle pieces thrown into a shared space for the player to make their own fun. I choose the designed, directed experience.