SaGa SCARLET GRACE: AMBITIONS™

SaGa SCARLET GRACE: AMBITIONS™

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BoxingBud 4 DIC 2019 a las 2:27 p. m.
I'm overall a bit disappointed.
I thought the game would bring more flexibility in how I develop my characters but because attributes (strength, intelligence, mobility etc) cannot be increased your character is essentially stuck in a role or maybe two, that they can do effectively and are otherwise gimped if you try making them something non-traditional to their attributes (Like making the mage-like Taria a martial artist or swords fighter).

If you do try to make her a fighter, at the apex of skill she would not be doing nearly as well as someone who's attributes are stronger. The same if we try to make Leonard a mage, he'll suck at it despite the effort. So despite the game being from a series that has no "class system" I hope your ready to get your characters pigeonholed into their roles.
Publicado originalmente por Mimikat:
SaGa Scarlet is just ♥♥♥♥...Miss the Freedom of all the previous entries.
One way or another,the old SaGa was more fun to play and let you do what you want.
Fixed characters or not.
This game is just a low budget RPG stamped SaGa to sell /:

I'll play this abomination only to see if later you can have fun,for now...it make me puke.
The only good thing is that the answer you are giving matter.


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Mostrando 16-30 de 33 comentarios
AH-1 Cobra 16 DIC 2019 a las 5:29 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por BoxingBud:
I can work with characters having some variability actually. I also think mobility governs martial arts as well. In Saga frontier I DID like that I could make someone completely opposite of what they were intended to be and have them be good regardless. I think Blue/Rogue's scenario was a bit restricted though because of his magic ability but that just means I can perfect him in other things after it.

Giving Blue/Rogue kung fu, with DSC was OP as hell. It didn't just work, it was the best possible thing you do could with those characters. I put DSC on Time Lord as well, and he rekt with it. Time Magic was busted in SF1. This is why Blue/Rogue/Time Lord were the most OP characters in that game.
BoxingBud 19 DIC 2019 a las 3:58 p. m. 
Meta game they are easily god tier, Asellus comes in second, all humans come third, mystics 4th, monsters and robots 5th but

Anything 4th tier and higher can be OP maxxed kicking butt easily. Monsters and robots can also rock anyway, just never as much meta game.

EDIT: Anyone making it to DSC (Dream super combo, a martial arts end skill) is pretty much OP at that point though.
Última edición por BoxingBud; 19 DIC 2019 a las 4:00 p. m.
SweatyFingers 21 DIC 2019 a las 8:03 a. m. 
Complaining that Scarlet Grace doesn't allow flexibility compared to previous SaGa games is disingenuous at best, but despite being very streamlined the game does have some depth which I assume you still haven't realized is there.
Buuuut a bit of context and explanation for this wouldn't hurt I guess:

First off, this game uses the fixed character stat standard that games like RS2 or 3 use, so making a comparison with SaGa Frontier, which uses the variable stat standard (And a horribly unbalanced version of that) is fallacious because you're omitting that in that system all human characters have innately different stat growth that doesn't make them nearly as flexible as you say they are, and this is without considering the other three races.
Lute for instance has some of the lowest INT growth in the game, while somebody like Blue or Rouge have the highest, that means Lute will be virtually a terrible mage or gun user compared to Blouge and there's nothing you can do about it other than grinding your ass off in the hope of evening the odds.
This is not so different compared to Scarlet Grace because while your base stats here are fixed, your proficiency levels (and Roles) exist to even the odds statistically, Leonard will never be as good as Taria as an offensive mage, sure, that doesn't mean you can't just grind your ass off just like you did in Frontier to make him not worthless (and you can also get the right constellation to bump his INT up to 8 for the records), the only thing that matters in these games is how much time you're willing to spend, or waste, while building a character.

Secondly, Scarlet Grace works on an entirely different battle model that, unlike the previous games sans The Last Remnant, doesn't allow you to have a varied loadout, that means your PARTY COMPOSITION this time around is what matters most rather than how much a single character can contribute by virtue of their toolkit pool, and while it is less varied is arguably not as broken either compared to most previous games.
The first thing that you immediately notice is how magic is now a dedicated role instead of a more elastic toolkit you can slap on anyone, and while magic is largely uninteresting in SG compared to previous games it's still arguably very, very strong, in fact the more mages you have in your party the more you'll notice it when you'll start abusing Hypergravity, Tailwind, Call Lightning etc.
Coupled with the new BP mechanics being a collective pool rather than a character pool means the game forces you to strategize differently compared to previous games, here you're a lot more worried about avoiding damage altogether rather and be as efficient on that as possible compared to the other games where you had a lot more easy tanking and turtling options.
It's not really shallower than something like Minstrel Song or Unlimited despite lacking some of the behind-the-curtains mechanics of those games, just a different formula, although for the most part it is arguably a lot more balanced for the most part of your playthrough compared to those, for better or worse.

Lastly, the stat system in SG is a lot more nuanced than previous games so character building and flexibility is actually not as easy and set in stone as you might think.
To make a classic example, let's say you want a martial artist, you know martial arts mainly scale off from STR and MOB, so by logic you'll want somebody with at least a 10+ in both of those scores, right?
Well it's not all that right actually because it turns out a martial artist benefit from those stats in a very different way and also benefits from other stats.
STR and MOB both influence your damage, but MOB also determines your evasion rate, which is crucial for a martial artist since you have no shields nor weapon guard like other weapon users, not to mention high MOB also influences you position in the timeline so you'll actually want a higher MOB than STR, also because Tumble exists, which is why somebody like Aslana who has 15 MOB but only 9 STR will be a much better and much more useful martial artist than somebody like Tsubaki despite having a lower STR score
Then you also have to consider their DEX, because DEX factors into Counter damage calculations and things like Jolt Counter and Retribution are a thing, which is why somebody like Griffin who has 15DEX can also be an amazing martial artist if you get him to learn those counters, and abuse Chop.

And this is judging characters by their stats alone, no role shenanigans and most importantly not looking at a weapon's toolkit and how that contributes to both a specific fight AND your party composition.

tl:dr; Do not judge things too hastily, Scarlet Grace might be very streamlined, different and on an even "shoestring-er" budget compared to the other games, but rest assured the flexibility IS in there and not in any different way from the previous games in the series.
El autor de este hilo ha indicado que esta publicación responde al tema original.
Mimikat 23 DIC 2019 a las 4:22 a. m. 
SaGa Scarlet is just ♥♥♥♥...Miss the Freedom of all the previous entries.
One way or another,the old SaGa was more fun to play and let you do what you want.
Fixed characters or not.
This game is just a low budget RPG stamped SaGa to sell /:

I'll play this abomination only to see if later you can have fun,for now...it make me puke.
The only good thing is that the answer you are giving matter.


Última edición por Mimikat; 24 DIC 2019 a las 1:48 a. m.
BoxingBud 26 DIC 2019 a las 3:45 p. m. 
Also getting Lute to 99 intelligence is still very easy.
Coxatris 30 DIC 2019 a las 1:38 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por SweatyFingers7:
To make a classic example, let's say you want a martial artist
Martial Arts skills that use:
Str + Mob is 6
Dex + End is 3
Str + Dex is 2
Dex is 1

A high Dex martial artist is just as good as a high Mob one. In fact, the higher Dex will allow for more frequent stuns with Tumble (since stun chance is based off Dex and Acuity).
BoxingBud 31 DIC 2019 a las 10:24 a. m. 
The lack of stats changing still means your characters are pigeonholed into what they are most effective at. With 80 or so characters in the game you'll still get your ideal party, so why not make anyone you already have, contain the potential to be good in the role you want them to be good in? The game convoluted something it shouldn't have.

Another mechanic that could be implemented is having certain actions reduce one stat and increase another. That way you don't get 99 in everything, (I personally love powergaming but whatever) and the person becomes what they do statistically. If your mage character keeps fighting with an axe they'll get stronger, more defensive, but also maybe slower, or less intelligent. There's tons of rpgs out there where characters are set in stats and class, but they don't brag about having an open ended classless system like this series does.

This game has a class system, it just doesn't admit it, and as such gets away with saying it doesn't have one.
Última edición por BoxingBud; 31 DIC 2019 a las 10:25 a. m.
spoonygundam 3 ENE 2020 a las 11:24 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por BoxingBud:
This game has a class system, it just doesn't admit it, and as such gets away with saying it doesn't have one.
Where is the game saying it doesn't have a class system?
BlasiPL 2 ENE 2021 a las 6:41 a. m. 
what you are saying ONLY apllies to magic VS physical characxters.
You can not make a physical character from magical and vice versa.
This is very logical and i dont know why you are so mad about it.
You can still make any phiscal character wield ANY wepon and make him/her good at it just like in previous saga games.
Switching and recruiting different characters and good battles with the sparkpling system is the essential of SAGA games and this is done briliantly here - of course - the characters design of some of them is a bit lackluster but it is a budget game...
Última edición por BlasiPL; 2 ENE 2021 a las 6:42 a. m.
Taisetsu na Miko 10 ABR 2022 a las 5:37 p. m. 
The more you understand the game, the more you can see characters who are technically bad in a role still have something to offer. For example, intelligence is used to calculate defense against elemental attacks, which means there is some importance to having high intelligence to a tankier role. It might also increase elemental weapon attacks by itself, too. Acuity I believe impacts all status effect application and defense, which allows characters to be more reliable overall. And characters with different stats seem to learn different skills a lot more easily, so maybe the average physical attacker struggles to learn katana skills, but the mage type character learns them quickly. And while the meta game may not favor a staff incantation specialist being a physical attacker, at least they may be more prone to learning skills that have benefits for mages, such as the Incendiary Arrow + Rising Nova role which improves fire damage, or the various roles that improve acuity. Mages only get a small amount of roles if they stay purely mages, as far as I can tell (got close to mastering all incantations and staff attacks on a character) and most of these just give you a higher benison chance, which is still really unreliable because of how formations work.
⭕TheSodaman 11 ABR 2022 a las 5:21 a. m. 
I realize this is an older thread that was resurrected.

The short of it is, you can indeed make a mage-stat character into a melee fighter or a tank. And a melee-stat character into a caster. But you'll need to play them differently.

e.g. Taria as a martial artist has low STR, END, and MOB, so if she's trying to Punch or Kick things, she's going to deal 5% less damage, take 5% more physical damage, evade less often, and act later in the turn than say... Lighthouse Lewis. Though she will Chop just as hard, have slightly more potent debuffs on her attacks, deal more non-physical damage, take less magical damage, and counter attack harder than Lewis.

As a result of her being slow, she can better position herself for a unity attack or prevent the enemy unity attack. To move ahead a bit with Thunder Kick or if things are too fast, snuggle between enemies with a Jolt Counter. And if she's between two enemies with a Jolt Counter or Retribution, the enemy will want to target her to make a unity attack for their own team. So now you have an idea of who to guard with the tank or you can just let her Jolt Counter that has the built-in evade and take advantage of the higher damage counters (only 5% more damage than Lewis anyway).

Or Taria as a tank, she will block for less, take more physical damage overall, and lower mobility won't matter as much if she's protecting someone. But she will block more often and stay her ground when she's taking elemental damage. And due to her positioning, she may be able to draw more attention from the enemies if they see her later in the round or in between unity attacks.

And then for melee attacks, she may prefer moves that scale from ACU INT or the other stat that I'm forgetting at the moment since almost every weapon has moves that alternate which stats they scale off of.

But in the end, the stats only seem roughly 5% of potency when there is a 10 point stat difference.
Merlandese 24 ABR 2022 a las 4:28 a. m. 
Real shame that such a unique and interesting JRPG system is getting a bad rep because one or two people have some other preconceived idea in their heads.

I've played a lot of SaGa games and I have no idea how you can play them and not realize that there are always innate roles. Even then, how strict they are swings wildly from game to game. And even the strictest SaGa has more role fluidity than SaGas peers. This complaint seems pointless. You ordered a burger, got a burger, and are upset that it's not a steak.
Keytee Tamira 5 ENE 2023 a las 7:38 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Merlandese:
Real shame that such a unique and interesting JRPG system is getting a bad rep because one or two people have some other preconceived idea in their heads.

I've played a lot of SaGa games and I have no idea how you can play them and not realize that there are always innate roles. Even then, how strict they are swings wildly from game to game. And even the strictest SaGa has more role fluidity than SaGas peers. This complaint seems pointless. You ordered a burger, got a burger, and are upset that it's not a steak.
Indeed
BoxingBud 9 ENE 2024 a las 10:52 p. m. 
Naw I played a bit more but I just didn't have fun. Stopped and that was 2019. The cringe accusations that I'm being disingenuous as the games meta is broken down etc etc, fine ♥♥♥♥ lmao, I just found the game boring for the reasons listed. I hope it's different and you have a problem with that, because that means I'm less like you and that's good in my books.
BoxingBud 9 ENE 2024 a las 10:53 p. m. 
And the sequel? It looks like old poser assets. After the recent final failures squeenix just sucks.
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