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Ya, that is exactly what it did. And it is as utterly stupid as you can imagine.
Ya, go figure. As if knowledge is ever truly offensive. Shame that it remains damaged in this way even all the time later, though.
Grab the game from *somewhere* on the internet, install it, copy the mission files over to the steam folder of the game :)
I've also done the mission where you have to kill the major in the base (where you get the M60) and they don't seem to find it strange you have to kill a map full of afghanis (or whoever they are) to make sure the helicopter lands safely.
And the way St. Petersburg is done like a f-king GULAG on steroids where it always snows. Just recently the city was awarded the tourist capital of the year. It's not a sh!thole with 5 drunken bums walking around tall 18th century buildings.
I'm not even going into the fact that the street names are pulled out of a word generator.
I'm not a snowflake who sees offensive stuff everywhere, although I should, seeing as Hollywood thinks we're subhuman and dehumanizes us in games and movies to make sure that the generations growing up on them won't hesitate to pull the trigger since 'Russians are untermensch" should SHTF. But, at the same time, I don't think other nationalities should take stuff this seriously and actually make developers suffer consequences like censorship when it's done to them. Everyone goes "India has more PhDs and is a noice country that's peaceful" - it has two conflicts that have been going on for ages, it has the highest rating for rape in the world and the amount of actually important indian scientists isn't that big. Same goes for Japanese. But when it's Russia it's "Drunkard poor ♥♥♥♥♥", whilst most of the world scientific developemtns recently are thanks to our scientists. And just by the way, Japan IS divided in to two societies, so nearly half of it is related to yakuza, the rest is influenced by it. It has a shadow government. How do I know? I live in Asia for two decades right next to Japan and some of my friends are from there.
Thats whats around 20 to 30 years of red scare propaganda gets you.
But the Hitman series has always been about silly steriotypes, i love Hitman 2 (my favorite in the series) but i cant deny its a steriotype fest of a game, Italians,Russians,Indians,Japanese and arabic people.
Actually, looking back, pretty much every enemy faction in the entire series has been a steriotype.
Hitman games have almost every hit be a low, evil, planning ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥... And since Hitman goes all across the world, yeah, there's Russians sometimes too.
The overall message is more like 'anybody can be evil, regardless of status or country of origin'
Yeah, you chose to be a mass murderer. Can be done in any mission. There's no point whereever in this game where you must kill an entire map, except for the very last one.
Ingame St. Petersburg is a pretty nice looking city (taking the ancient graphics in account). There's also zero drunken bums or gulag-stuff going on (bar the police blockades in 2 missions... Seriously, police blockages = gulag?). Confusing it with the river missions of Blood Money? I know those had plenty drunkards and ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that shot on sight, but those were in America, not Russia.
The bikers in the Rotterdam mission in Contracts sound like bored office workers. Details like that has never really been Hitman's strong point.
You definitely see offensive stuff everywhere.
Hitman only visits places that are interesting or pretty, and Denmark is neither.
Not even a rude remark or anything. Denmark just is a super uninteresting country.
Bah, I came here to read up stories and such, why did you and your paranoid butt have to be here as well...
Judging from my previous experience with you, no it isn't.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/4700/discussions/0/353915847944928556/
Or at minimum, the understandable grievances with national steroetyping are just part of it. Especially since you've resorted to it yourself, to an extreme egree.
And for what it is worth, while the main villain in Hitman 2 is in fact Russian (and he is quite evil), he actually loses out to the heretical Sikh apocalypse cult led by someone whose nationality is never stated. Because while he's a weapons trafficker, he's not a madman who quite literally wants to start a nuclear inferno. (Which is why he orders the assassination of the cult leader, as well as covering his own tracks).
Likewise in the most recent Hitman, where the one Russian you are tasked with assassinating is indeed a deeply corrupt fixer who sells info to whoever will pay for it and is involved in several coverups, murders, and the like, but in his personal life he's fairly nice and legitimately wants to get out of the "Terrorist Information Broker" business. And he's contrasted against his Israeli wife, who is an absolute *monster* who not only masterminded the whole sell-to-terrorists thing but is sadistic in her personal life to those at her mercy.
You don't have to kill them all. Incapacitate sure, but killing hurts your score. As detialed here. As in every mission except the very last one (where the enemies are the aforementioned mafia boss along with every single one of his Sicilian and Russian bodyguards) killing anybody but the targets is a knock off your score.
https://portforward.com/games/walkthroughs/Hitman-2-Silent-Assassin/16-Tunnel-Rat.htm
(Though you are right, they are Afghani warlord troops)
Yeah, that is a regretful mess. Though for what it is worth, my gut feeling is that it is probably a ccombination of the outdated graphics as well as stereotyping. I honestly would like to see St. Petersburg be done in its' full glory. As someone who's been there personally, it more than deserves it.
To be fair, from everything we see the St. Petersburg missions seem to all take place in Winter ,especially given that. And as someone who is living in Ohio (which is significantly South of Petersburg itself) and we have expectations for it to snow straight from November until at earliest mid March. We did have a breif thaw due to rain a couple weeks ago, but that's long gone now.
So it's not exaclty impossible.
Agreed, and that does suck. The best psosible defense I can say is that Hitman is a deeply seedy, ugly universe that tends to portray everything as having a grimy underbelly (for instance, American subrubia and high rises dominated by street hooligans and twhich are prey to the manipulations of arms manufacturers). Even the plaes that are luxurious and exotic have that going on, for instance Siicly the mob dominated area.
Ya, that was absolutely retarded of them, no defense possible there.
As stated above, in my personal experience it seems to be the opposite. Especially since it's not just a matter of you getting irrutated at Russian stereotypes and shoddy portrayals in media, but even dragging things like a major anti-English bias into things as unrelated as "What are the legal languages of the Republic of India?"
Indeed, and Hitman is nothing if not spectacularly even handed (as far as targets go)). Tehre have been targets from absolutely every single inhabited continent, and entire games dedicated to killing American targets (Sniper Challenge, and especially Absolution).
When they aren't viewed as dirty, unwashed telephone people...
Admittedly one of those is a very bloody civil war by some old school Maosits, and the other is mostly contineud by Pakistani support from across the Line fo Contact. But yeah, it certainly is not saintly. And the website's summary gives that..
Indeed, though to be fair that is probably because it is the country with the highest that actually A: keeps fiarly reliable records and B: reports themmore or less honestly.
We have a lot of reasons to believe places like the DR of the Congo probably have higher ones, and the PRC and Saudi Arabia *miiight*, but the former's in the throes of a civil war and the latter two are totalitarian states that quash reports.
But still, we DO know more than enough about India to know it is seriously lscrewed up in that regards. I doubt it would be much consolation to the victims to say "Ok, the actual figures are true, but there is somebody worse than you!"
YMMV, but yeah, certianly significantly less than the number of-say- Russian ones.
Not the same, but sure, a lot of airbrushing.
I agree the former is wrong. But as for the latter... there's a reason why the USSR never made it to the moon or gave birth to the personal computer or internet systems. And I could go on. Russia certainly has been a land of thinkers and inventors,so it's not that everybody is stupid and drinks themselves to death. But things like the draconian Soviet control on science and free inquiry shows.
For instance, take a look at the sad fate of Sergei Korolov, the father of Astronomics, a brilliant inventor, and probably the person best equipped to beat NASA to the moon before he keeled over from the lingering effect sof his abuse at the hands of the KGB.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/429876/sergei-korolev-legendary-rocket-scientist
And he was certainly not alone.
And which society does Hitman 2 show?
The Yakuza, basically. In teh same way that the Civilian levels are split between the Church and the Mafia, India hosts an apocalypse cult that freaks out even the Bratava nuclear arms smuggler, and the levels in Russia feature questionably honest generals and definitely illegitimate mob bosses and assassisn going around.
Well, that and seventysome years of a Bolshevik dictatorship in the Kremlin trying to spread the revolution globally through war (i really wish I were kidding, but "Let's start a world war a year after WWI ended!" is not an exaggeration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Warsaw_(1920) ) and some truly repugnant propaganda that makes WWII anti-Japanese stuff look subtle and nuanced. Though that was far from only the fautl fo Russians.
(Case in point: arch-traitors like the Cambridge ring).
Agreed, albeit ones relatively fleshed out. Heck, just about the only possible exceptions are the couple of people who get sniped from a distance (for instance, Richard Strong). Heck, take a look at Absolution if you want your fill of Evil Cowboy weaposn Guy, Street Punks, and Corrupt Hick Cop. Or Contracts for things like Pedo Iberian Prima donna and his Pedo American lover, psycho classist-murderer British aristocrats, Western Eurotrash Bker, and the like. Also the latest Hitman's elusive targets.
Say what we will about Hitman, but it is is incredibly inclusive and tolerant about the race, nationality, and gender of its' targets. Absolutely everybody is fair game.
US killed/tortured artists, scientists, homosexuals (the lavander scare) and other so called "communists" for not agreeing to draconian social policies due to McCarthyism. The Rosenberg couple case also comes to mind
USSR & European Nations/US did commit questionable things in divided germany. Both countries also commited war crimes & incetivated rebellions and mass killings on alot of other countries, such ones in central america & middle east ones.
And US generals, just like their russian post soviet era counterparts also did profit directly or indirectly on the whole ordeal. To this day the US Top Brass has a close relationship to the weapons industry, an unhealthy relationship for the US as a whole due to the pro-war agenda.
So, as i said, there are no innocent countries when it comes to the major players in the cold war.
Agreed, though technically it was meant to "cure" them, not kill him. but indeed, the fact that they tormented him so and drove him so is inexcusable.
Considering the many, many, many sins in US history- including all out genocide in the Northwestern Frontier wars (where standard strategy on both sides was "Find the enemy's civilian areas, then burn them and their food supply down, kill everyone and enslave the few survivors so that the warirors starve") the red scarei s barely comparable.
Firstly: the "draconian" social policies paled in comparison to those of the thirties and forties, and were by and large enforced by the same organizations (like HUAC). Including on Fascist groups or what were accused of them (incuding a bunch of organizations that supported the democratic republic that was Finland, and were banned when the US entered the war). So the double standard is real.
Secondly: very very few of the people involved were actually tortured or killed. Even people who were basically found dead to rights- such as Alger Hiss- were not.
http://www.latimes.com/la-oe-radosh17-2008sep17-story.html
The Rosenbergs were Soviet spies and were tried, convicted, and executed appropriately as such. They were identified through Venona (whose accuracy is beyond impeachment).
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/venona/inte_19440921.html
They were also identified by several other former members of the CPUSA (which I might add was not a political party as we would understand it now, but basically a terrorist-group-in-waiting explicitly dedicated to the violent overthrow of the US on behalf of the Soviets; trying to broach the idea of a peaceful takeover is what got Earl Bowder removed on orders of Stalin).
And ultimately, now we have confirmation from several others- including those that remained loyal- that yes, they were what the govenrment alleged them to be.
And I could go on.
Of all the many, many, many sins on the US's history, the Rosenbergs are not one of them. Unless you object to capital punishment as a whole, which is fine, but not a matter of their innocence.
On the whole the Red Scare is a shameful chapter in Western history and especially that of the US. But it did not come out of the blue, given how it coincided with absolute proof that Stalin had direct control over all the mainline Communist Parties in the West (sans for some Trotskyites and others) and was using them to attack their host countries. And it has also been drummed up in an attempt to make it even somewhat comparable to the various Communist internal purges which killed tens of thousands on the low scale and not uncommonly a million or more.
It wasn't. And the fact that we do not see this kind of hysteria about HUAC or other bodies before the post war period (when they were going after Fascists or alleged pro-Fascists) is eloquent testimony to the fact that this mass torture and murder spree in the 1950's US never happened.
Agreed, but there's little bit of quantifiable difference here. Not because the US was perfect, it absolutely was not. And many of its' allies were absolute scum.
However, even the absolute scum pale in comparison to the sheer bloodshed that featured in the "Eastern Bloc".
Case in point:
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/MEGA.HTM
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE4.HTM
Which is probably one of the finest sources on the web for measuring democide, death by government in excess of the normal death toll. And it is an equal oppertunity beater, measuring those killed by US democide as well as the Soviets.
It's just that there's not a lot that can beat sixty million plus dead. And the one that can probablyi s Maoist China.
So there's bad and then there is *unspeakably* bad.
There's a reason why- facing the squeeze between their former Soviet allies (as per the Rapallo Treaty and Molotov-Ribbentrop) and the Western Allies, millions of Germans, Hungarians, Croatians, Slovenians, Austrians, and more STAMPEDED for the latter. Because even if all the armies involved committed atrocities, clearly people even at the time understood that the nature and magnitude were *Very* different.
Not really, especially on the US side where most people- like Alexander Haig- generally profitted from it AFTEr they left.
The weapons industry is not a market of saints by any concievable stretch of the imagination, but it is one of the most massively misunderstood and demonized things in history. In general, the weapons industry prefers tension without outright war, in large part because war requires them to actually get on the field and risk their personal facilities and whatnot repairing equipment, replacing it, obeying insurance policies, and the like.
It is also generally a *ripple effect* of war or international tension, not a determiner. The market goes to meet demand more than it does create it. We see this with the blossoming weapons industry even in places like say Belgium, where FN and other companies do splendid business in spite of Belgium not being a fanatical warmongering state.
Firstly, i'm not sure I would agree with that, especially given the example of-say- Luxembourg, and Kuwait. Though those are technical cases and I agree with the point.
However, again, there's a difference between not being innocent, and being unspeakably guilty.
There's a difference between a red scare and a great purge, of people getting blacklisted with scant cause (which is bad and inexcusable) and people getting completely Nonpersoned in the Gulag or ditches by the thousands. There's a difference between the Rosenbergs being found out as NKVD operatives and being given due process and then old sparkey, and people having to undergo the ordeal of show trials in which they would confess to everything in the hopes that the regime did not kill their family as well.
There's a difference between even thousands of lynchings and imprisonments, and sixtyplus million dead.
That is the difference in the Cold War. And one doesn ot have to be a hagiographer or believe one side was purely white and the other purely black in order to see the difference in lighting.
Did he really? Or did he die by accident? Was it maybe even an accident related to preparing for a suicide attempt?
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-18561092
http://www.turingfilm.com/turing-suicide
Strictly speaking, there's no question he "Killed Himself"; he did it by consuming these drugs the British government foisted on him to try and "Cure" him. What his frame of mind was and whether it was an attempt at suicide, complying with the (hideous, unjust) law, or trying to "cure" himself doesn't change the fact that on a literal level, the doses he gave himself did kill him.
But just to honor Turtler's huge post, i will say that i dont really like this notion of "who was the worst" and try to go after numbers, IMO it only takes one unethical action of great magnitude for me to classify a governament body as "bad/evil".
I put the Allied civil firebombings, mass killings,nuclear bombings on the same level of "bad" as the Nazis or Soviet genocides. one might have been in the hundreds of thousands and the other in the millions, but both are bad enough and i think we shouldnt be trying to prove who was worst.
Sure, the situation might have been diferent back then (choosing the lesser evil), but we have the luxury of living in the future and i dont think counting numbers above the hundreds of thousands will make a diference now.
Fair enough. Maybe on another medium like chat or on each others' profiles?
They're both bad enough, but while the former were terrible and the firebombings were almost pointless (especially the firebombings) they were not killing against a defenseless populace (like what the apocalypse cult in Hitman 2 wanted). And the Atomic Bombings were in fact a desperate atempt to avoid an even worse amount of bloodshed through Operation Downfall.
Agreed, but I do think going forward we will have to pick going forward. And the need to pick the lesser evils will still be necessary, and counting back can help give us insight for similar ones in the future. And that ability to change the future can change it.
Anyway, sorry for the off topic.
You mean that time I proved you that you have complex of English superiority that I've unfortunately had to deal with in my excrutiatingly painful two years of British college too and how I called you out on it?
Yeah, we Russians are almost always right cause we put truth before national pride. Theat's why you keep shouting and losing in historical arguments wherever you go. I'm sorry that discussion went south, but that's how it is.