Sturmtiger unbalanced?

[Huntsman]

A sturmtiger was able to withstand more shots than I can count from a british firefly, jumbo 76mm, sherman 76mm, from the front, side, and... The rear. And after about 2 minutes finish reloading and proceeded to kill 5 tanks in one shot. OP? Or working as intended...

[Broche]

Remember that there is no side armor in COH , but its weird since shoots at the rear from 76mm should pen, and from the front if you're close and use AP rounds it should pen. I will try to test it later and post it in the forum about it.

[hurepoix]

Originally posted by Fi'gree:

I will try to test it later and post it in the forum about it.

Save your time, it cant. Target table have always been incoherent at BK, and despite the new team effort, is still biaised... but less than in the past.

There is few chance it will change in the future. Rework the whole target table is a formidable work to do.

The other reason is pvp lobbying. It is years now pvp players took the mod control via lobbying on bk forum. This population hate change. Small changes can be acceptable (usually after long dispute) but large structural change, even to make game coherent is unacceptable. Something that change confortable habits will be see like ; oh you just ruin MY game.

[Zerbeus]

as the guy who was useing the Sherman Firefly i can say the ST took damage only from a 25 pdr shell but the tanks where not scratching it

[hurepoix]

After looking at the problem, and unlike that I though, sturmtiger would be damaged by sherman 76 (and 17 pdr), but probably not as it would be. Roughly it is not the worst exemple of tank who resist much more as it would be, especially from side and rear attack.

To be completly fair, remember sturmtiger replace V1, which was invulnerable and unstoppable.

[Zerbeus]

true but me and hunts are going to test and find the best way to deal with ST

[Huntsman]

Originally posted by hurepoix:

To be completly fair, remember sturmtiger replace V1, which was invulnerable and unstoppable.

You raise many good points and have had a good input. But replacing a weapon that is invulerable by concept and putting in it's place a weapon that should be able to be countred renders it pointless. I should state I and a few of my friends are new to playing this mod and my experience is limited, but something like a invulerable artillery tank able to dish out an explosion able to level buildings and destroy a group of tanks is a bit strong when it cannot be killed. I fully intend to test and see if this was just one of those moments in which RNGjesus favored the german team or if this is just a every day occurence.

I can see where people would not want to have a system changed that benefits them.
But that is a poor excuse to not have something changed.

[hurepoix]

Bk change but slowly. Sturmtiger share target table with tiger II. It makes senses, with nuance ingame sturmtiger is cheaper (but have limited offensive period). Really sturmtiger would be vunerable from rear even by 57 mm/6 pdr. At least flank rear attack from 76mm Would be higher.

For biais there is also nuance, because you have to keep in mind unit cost and upkeep. If I code a mod where the churchill have stronger armour and gun and is as fast as the tiger, it is obviously a UK biais, even it could appear balanced if this churchill cost more than the tiger.

It is this way bk have been coded at start ; all that is german have to be superior. It is why for exemple a a PIVE have a better armour than a cromwell, despite it is really the inverse.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Hello.
Not long ago, the frontal armor of the JagdTiger as well as Churchills.. was buffed. Since they were too easily penetrated... However, later they discovered that the rear armor for both was over-performing after the buff. And it was tweaked shorty after that!

Same seems to happen with the SturmTiger now, at least from what I can see, but some observation is required first.. after that, I will be contacting the dev team about it if necessary. And by the way, it can be easily corrected if it really proved to be over-performing to that extent.

[Avatar_Khaine]

Hey buddy, I was forced to withstand American Infantry Jumbo with my 2 panthers, both used armour piercing and it didn't have any affect on Jumbo. Untill I decided to use King Tiger and actually was afford it.

[salt miner]

yes it needs more armor

[Belisarius]

Please remember, the Sturmtiger has 150mm frontal armor.

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Originally posted by hurepoix:

Bk change but slowly. Sturmtiger share target table with tiger II. It makes senses, with nuance ingame sturmtiger is cheaper (but have limited offensive period). Really sturmtiger would be vunerable from rear even by 57 mm/6 pdr. At least flank rear attack from 76mm Would be higher.

For biais there is also nuance, because you have to keep in mind unit cost and upkeep. If I code a mod where the churchill have stronger armour and gun and is as fast as the tiger, it is obviously a UK biais, even it could appear balanced if this churchill cost more than the tiger.

It is this way bk have been coded at start ; all that is german have to be superior. It is why for exemple a a PIVE have a better armour than a cromwell, despite it is really the inverse.

The Churchill did have thicker and stronger armor than the Tiger. If it doesn't in game that's just bad design.

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Originally posted by The letter h in comic sans™:

Please remember, the Sturmtiger has 150mm frontal armor.

It's only got 80mm of side armor, And that 150mm is from sloping. If you were using special ammo it should punch right through frontally, And if you hit it from the side it should be toast, Unless the 17pdr can't penetrate a Panzer IV either.

[RoflTank]

Originally posted by Kanmusu Marine Sexpert:

Originally posted by The letter h in comic sans™:

Please remember, the Sturmtiger has 150mm frontal armor.

It's only got 80mm of side armor, And that 150mm is from sloping. If you were using special ammo it should punch right through frontally, And if you hit it from the side it should be toast, Unless the 17pdr can't penetrate a Panzer IV either.

It's actually 195mm from slope, because the plate itself was 150mm actual thickness at 50* from horizontal.

The only 17pdr shell that could penetrate a Tiger 2 hull frontally was APDS, if the shell actually hit (APDS was notoriously inaccurate), if the shell didn't shatter (APDS had a tendency to not hit straight because it was highly unstable), and if the tank was below 500m (which is pretty much the only way you can actually hit something reliably with APDS).

In other words, a 17pdr. tank, as good as the 17pdr. was, needs to be VERY lucky to kill a Tiger 2 frontally.

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Originally posted by RoflTank:

Originally posted by Kanmusu Marine Sexpert:

It's only got 80mm of side armor, And that 150mm is from sloping. If you were using special ammo it should punch right through frontally, And if you hit it from the side it should be toast, Unless the 17pdr can't penetrate a Panzer IV either.

It's actually 195mm from slope, because the plate itself was 150mm actual thickness at 50* from horizontal.

The only 17pdr shell that could penetrate a Tiger 2 hull frontally was APDS, if the shell actually hit (APDS was notoriously inaccurate), if the shell didn't shatter (APDS had a tendency to not hit straight because it was highly unstable), and if the tank was below 500m (which is pretty much the only way you can actually hit something reliably with APDS).

In other words, a 17pdr. tank, as good as the 17pdr. was, needs to be VERY lucky to kill a Tiger 2 frontally.

No it's got 100mm of frontal armor sloped to 150mm of thickness.